Talk:Gaza flotilla raid: Difference between revisions

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A news item involving Gaza flotilla raid was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 31 May 2010.

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There is no mention of the Turkish Doctors who treated IDF soldiers injured in the raid. I think to be fair we need this to be mentioned. Not everyone on the ship was there with ill-intentions.

There is no mention of the Israeli Government's apology to Turkey for the Mavi Marmara raid and subsequent loss of life. I think to be neutral this needs to be mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

Bultn (talk) 09:14, 13 November 2013 (UTC) Because the flotilla ignored legal instruction from Israel.64.134.64.118 (talk) 13:54, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It was not piracy because it does not meet the definition which specifically states "a private ship or a private aircraft". I.e. state actors are not included. http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part7.htm Article 101 'Definition of piracy'.

It should correctly be called 'state terrorism'. There are plenty of reasons for this:

The blockade was not correctly notified.

Various contraventions of Geneva Convention IV which renders the blockade illegal (see UNHRC report).

San Remo requires warning to be given prior to attack whereas the IDF just turned up and began firing their riot guns.

Ships carrying humanitarian aid must be allowed to pass (can be subjected to inspection but the Flotilla offered to accept UN inspection on the high sea and this was ignored). (N.b. the IDF admitted at Ashdod that there were no weapons on board the ships.)

Not legal to attack a civilian ship in this fashion, the Flotilla was after all carrying women and non-combatants and the Mavi Marmara had an infant on board. The semi-automatic riot guns believed to firing pepper spray or even impact balls were fired indiscriminately at the ship right from the start. Stun grenades were thrown at the Mavi Marmara (an unarmed civilian vessel) within about 30 seconds of the start of the attack. These are very dangerous fireworks which caused one man on the Challenger I to lose the sight in one eye. Since the ship was being attacked by heavily armed terrorists (whose weapons included Uzi sub-machine guns, Glock pistols and even a grenade launcher on one of the inflatables circling the ship) it had a legal right to defend itself, using as it did fire hoses, chairs and iron bars. (N.b. Axes were never used, they were just removed from the fire stations by the IDF for their photo shot at Ashdod.) Hardly a match for the weapons the terrorists were using as the end result showed.Kombo the mzungu (talk) 21:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, the article already states that Erdoğan called to raid state terrorism. Cheers, --Dailycare (talk) 17:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

this article takes its heading from the Hate flotilla. Why not metion it illegaly entered Israeli territory and had known terrorist on board who started the confrontatiion.MagicKirin11 (talk) 05:48, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This comment is biased and inaccurate. The bias is demonstrated by the first sentence containing an ad hominem against the flotilla. Inaccurate because it was attacked on the high seas and never entered Israeli territory until forced to do so by armed military personnel after they had killed 9 passengers and seriously injured more than 50 others.

The vague comment about a terrorist is indecipherable but the Cultures of Resistance film shows quite clearly that the commandos started firing their riot guns before they were attacked. So the IDF started the violent 'confrontation', not some imagined terrorist on board. Kombo the mzungu (talk) 21:29, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

1) Erdinç Tekir – IHH operative wounded aboard the Mavi Marmara, was involved in the violent 1996 terrorist attack on the Russian ferry Avrasya to bargain for the release of Chechen terrorists from Russian prisons . He was convicted & sentenced to eight years in prison, but served only 3 years.

2) Raed Salah- Leader of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, previously convicted by Israeli court for raising money for Hamas

3) Hilarion Capucci -Syrian convicted by an Israeli court of smuggling arms to the Palestine Liberation Army and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

4) Hassan Aynsey (28), a member of a Turkish charity association, regularly transfers funds to the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist group.

5)Hussein Orush, from the Turkish IHH organization, intended to assist al-Qaeda activists into the Strip via Turkey.

6) Ahmed Omemun (51) from Morocco, who also has French citizenship, is a Hamas member.

7) Amin Abu-Rashid, 43, chief fundraiser of Hamas in Western Europe

8) Yasser Muhammed Sabag, Syrian intel officer working with Iran and others according to Serbian news agency FOCUS (He was an active member of Abu Nidal terrorist organization)

By refusing to list these convicted criminals and current terrorists, the Wikipedia page is showing a clear bias.

This list is not complete because many of the names were never released to the public.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/article/18040

http://blog.camera.org/archives/2013/10/archbishop_gets_award_for_armi.html

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/176279#.UtVFIPabr8A — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.205.143 (talk) 14:20, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The first two sources are famously partisan and unreliable and the third contains unproven allegations. These claims appear to have malicious intent i.e. they are intended to portray the flotilla in a bad light and belittle the humanitarian aims (after all there were 10,000 tons of aid on the flotilla and much of it either did not reach Gaza or was not fit for use after Israel finally released it). Kombo the mzungu (talk) 21:40, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article introduction uses extremely POV (and highly inaccurate) language, to discredit the Secretary General's report. For example, using a UNHCR op-ed featuring hand-picked authors to claim that the report was "heavily criticized by United Nations independent experts" when in fact it was just a particular op-ed and particular authors. There is also no criticism of the UNHCR report, or the organization itself, despite plenty being available. The article previously falsely describes the Palmer report as being a "response to" the UNHCR report," despite the Palmer report being prepared before the UNHCR report was published. The article also recently used non-sources such as counterpunch. In addition, the most recent edit is contrary to what the Palmer report found. What was linked to was an opinion piece in a journal written by Russell Buchan, not the Palmer report.

My version of the paragraph would be as follows:

On On 2 August 2010, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon announced that the U.N. would conduct an investigation of the incident. The report was published on 2 September 2011 after being delayed, reportedly to allow Israel and Turkey to continue reconciliation talks. The report found the Israeli blockade to be legal, recognizing that the IDF were met with "organized and violent resistance from a group of passengers" and therefore force was necessary for self-defense,[1] but stated that "the loss of life and injuries resulting from the use of force by Israeli forces during the take-over of the Mavi Marmara was unacceptable".[2]

Drsmoo (talk) 20:29, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article written by Russell Buchan is NOT an opinion piece but an analysis of the report, published in a peer-reviewed academic journal and is therefore considered a RS. The quote is an analysis of the report, and it reflects the language and spirit of the report, as judged by an expert and as reviewed by peers. It is *NOT* an opinion and it will stay put. Engelo (talk) 22:30, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]