User talk:Mav: Difference between revisions

If you've been frequenting the RecentChanges page, you might already expect that I am a Wikipediholic -- yep, I admit it (score = 82).
Problem now is, sleeping has switched from a full (i.e. normal) to part time occupation.... oh well - you only live once, there's plenty of time to rest later...

Why did you remove the recent death ? Did you hear she reborn after 3 days ? Ant

? Because there is a page for recent deaths called Recent deaths. Only events go on the Current events page. --mav

Ah ? Another question then ... If Saddam is proved dead, will he not appear on this page then, but only on the recent death page ?

Hm. Death of major world leader who has been the targeted focus of US military. Sounds like an event to me. We also list assassinations and murders too - but simply dying isn't an event. We are all born and all die - there is nothing special about that. There needs to be an event associated with that death to make it really newsworthy. --mav

[[User::Zoe|Zoe]] suggested I ask you for references to standards for biographical and titular information on Wikipedia. (I hope it's not, as she suggests, something that is kept secret amongst a mysterious clique of editors.) -- mib.

Answer on your talk page. It is no secrete BTW. --mav

We are not arguing that China is a "communist" (lower-case "c") society in the Marxist sense, that is a state where the means of production are under common ownership. Whether or not China is a "socialist" society in Marxian terms, defined by state ownership of the means of production, is further irrelevant to this debate. In this context, the term "Communist state" (upper-case "C") strictly refers to the type of government in the same sense that "constitutional monarchy" describes the governments of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, that "federal republic" describes the government-types of the United States and Brazil, that "Islamic republic" describes the government-type of Iran, that "military government" describes the government of Myanmar, and finally that "absolute monarchy" would describe the government of Oman. The government is Communist, ruled by a Marxist-Leninist party.

Divergences between the development levels, levels of state ownership, and economic structures between the five Communist states of China, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, and North Korea or whether or not China is "capitalist" and has betrayed its Marxist-Leninist philosphy thus don't matter to this discussion. The ruling Communist parties of these countries share roughly the same structure and share similarly intertwined state and party institutions and share roughly the same constitutional forms. They represent a common government-type based on the Leninist state and are bound by having to adapt to similar circumstances, that is (with the exception of Castro's Cuba which wasn't at first definitively Communist) supplanting or revamping existing state institutions to fit the mold of an underground revolutionary political party.

172

And how do you disambiguate communist from Communist when it starts a sentence? That is a very poor way to disambiguate a word that has three different defintions. But all three definitions are still part of the same continum of communistic. --mav

Hah! *big roar of laughter* You are only just back and you are at 33K again. As they say, an archive a day keeps cut-ofsf at bay!!! Hope the digital camera works out. I am about to get one too, as soon as a large pay cheque for briefing a politician comes in. Anyway *sigh* you'll love this, Mav-man. Adam/Bridget/Lir/Vera Cruz/Susan Mason/Dietary Fiber is BACK. (Were you around when Susan inadvertently admitted to being DF and was banned? (How many times is that that Adam has been banned?) Anyway, Adam's new identity is Shino Baku. I'd been suspicious all night but couldn't put my finger on what. Then Shino left a message on 172's page. He and I saw it simultaneously and each went to each other's page simultaneously to say that it sounded a hell of a lot like something one of the Adam family would say. The edit pattern since Sino came on is the same. The debate style on all pages is the same. The tendency to make evert increasingly ludicrous and provocative statements that was Susan's trademark. The tendency to wait until a row had died down and some controversial opinion accepted or rejected, then to jump in at the last minute and start it up again by saying I (always first personal singular) think 'x', 'x' being the opposite of the almost agreed 'peace deal'. And the moment we mentioned our suspicions everyone immediately said 'that explain's it.' There was something familiar about this new user. But the scary thing was the line on 172's page was word for word what Susan regularly said, what DF said, what all of the Children of Lir said. Always in the same format. Always in first person. The only change was the topic. How many times does a user have to get banned before they can be banned permanently? ÉÍREman 07:03 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

You know me - I'm a pushover. Personally I don't like these Lir sighting games and think that they are harmful to the project when they are so obvious. It just gives me the major creeps for reasons I can't exactly put my finger on. IMO if you have serious suspicions that user X is Lir incarnate then quitely document your evidence on user talk pages and present it to Jimbo (the only authority in this matter) via the mailing list. If Adam keeps it up Jimbo has already said that he will seek legal action. --mav

The use of the "v-word" here is, IMO, not appropriate. But we all should be careful about our karma or else we might be reincarnated as smelly trolls. --mav

Or even worse, the latest member of the Adam or DW familys. ;) -- John Owens

I would rather be reborn as a cockroach. :) --mav

Heh heh. Thanks for the laugh, Mav. Hope the pixs came out OK from your new digital camera. My five thousand euro cheque came through today so tomorrow I'm a buying a digital camera too. Then I can go around Dublin and take photos by the hundred for any wiki pages remotely mentioning Dublin! OK. I admit it. I'm a wikiholic. And just in case there was any doubt, my phone bill arrived and looking at the amount of time I spent wiki-ising . . . AAAAAAGH. wikilove and digi-cameras! ÉÍREman 23:23 Apr 25, 2003 (UTC)

They came out great! But it will be some time before I can integrate them into the 'pedia. I also carry the darn thing around with me all the time now - the other day I shot a few pics of the California Capitol because the lighting and wind conditions were favorable. --mav

Have you studied the contributions of Shino Baku and his/her comments on the talk pages? I really doubt this; otherwise you'd have no doubt that this Shino user is the latest user name of Lir/Vera. 172

Alas last week I was on holiday in Death Valley and up to now have had very little time to engage in witch hunting activity. But I'm keeping my eyes open. --mav

Thanks, mav. I'm just a little p*ssed off tonight. -- Zoe

We all have that right once in a while. For me it is oftentimes therapeutic. :) --mav

sorry mav, nothing has arrived. Slán ÉÍREman 20:45 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)

Go ahead, mav, I wasn't looking forward to doing all that reverting, anyway.  :) -- Zoe

OK --mav

Mav, I don't think I could leave. Let's face it, that would involve some serious difficulties, such as trying to remember what it is like to have a ... er ... (damn it, the term is on the tip of my tongue) ... ah yes ... to have a "normal life". But my former enthusiasm for doing fauna entries has evaporated. After doing a bit of this and a bit of that, I was really enjoying working in a field which is, if not controversy-free, at least one where the controversies are very civilised.

Consider the horrible mess that is bird taxonomy, with the English, the Americans, the Australians, the Dutch, the South Africans all having different and incompatible classifications. And yet, here on the 'pedia, we have two Englishmen, an American, and an Australian - all happily cooperating to build a body of work that is as up-to-date and scientifically correct as we can make it. It has a long, long way to go, and there are several thorny issues to resolve, but bit by bit we are getting there.

Or consider the woeful state of the mammal entries. (I'm thinking of the Australian ones in particular here.) I've spent days and days working on these, checking all my facts with appropriate sources as I go along, and they have started to take some form and accuracy on.

All the while I've been swallowing, largely without complaint, the constant and tedious fiddling from people who, however well-meaning, are being very unhelpful. Yesterday I reached a "last straw" state of mind and I've spat the dummy out.

I don't want to do fauna stuff here anymore.

I take your point about using common names instead of specialist names, and agree with it. However, we need to think this through. Consider the three basic situations:

• (i) Highly specialised and very formal publications that generally avoid common names entirely. In these, if it appears at all, a common name is more a textual decoration than an indication of a particular precise species. Writers only use the commom name to do things like avoid too much repetition in a sentence, and never use it to stand alone as an identification of a species. The common name is, in effect, used as a sort of psudo-pronoun. For example (just a made-up sentence to illustrate):

A. australis is endemic to New Zealand, where it is classified as vulnerable, but on neighboring islands the brown kiwi remains common.

Not a very good illustration, but the point is that the common name serves no special purpose of identification (in these publications, binomial names rule supreme) and does not need to be set off in any way from the rest of the text. Hence, it can be left uncapitalised without loss of meaning or clarity. (By the way, at least so far as birds go, this style is very rare indeed.)

• (ii) Scientifically correct publications more broadly. These can be aimed at the general reader or the professional working in the field, but usually fall somewhere between those extremes. Here, correct capitalisation is a vital part of the use of common names. In at least some fields (birds is certainly one), the common name is an exact equivalent to the binomial name. There is only one Black-shouldered Kite in the entire world. You can write "Elanis axillaris" or "Black-shouldered Kite" and no-one has the slightest doubt which creature you mean. However, a "black-shouldered kite" could equally well be E. scriptus or any of several birds from the northern hemisphere. Unless we include the binomial name each and every time we want to indicate E. axillaris or E. scriptus (as the highly formal and rather unreadable type of strictly-scientific publication listed at (i) above does), we have no other choice but to use capitalisation.

• (iii) General works which don't aim to be scientifically correct. Here, there is no particular attempt to be accurate or precise, or (usually) to identify any particular species. Often, neither the author not the reader even knows what the species is, let alone cares. For example, if I were writing a novel, it would be silly to write:

Gloria shuddered at the thought of her pet harming the beautiful Scarlet Robin she had admired from the window earlier that morning.

You might as well go the whole hog and write:

Gloria shuddered at the thought of her pet harming the beautiful Scarlet Robin (Petroica multicolor) she had admired from the window earlier that morning.

In a novel or in a work of general non-fiction, it is perfectly acceptible (and indeed correct) to not capitalise, as the intention of the work is to highlight some thing other than the creature in question. In the passage above, for example, we are not interested in the robin, nor even in what Gloria's cat has done to it, we are interested in Gloria's emotional reactions.

In summary, there are three possibilities:

• (a) That we always use binomial names if in the slightest doubt about the identity of a species. This would be, strictly speaking, correct, but unreadable for the vast majority.
• (b) That we abandon the attempt to create a scientifically correct body of work, and become a light-weight, non-auhoritive place that is little more than a glorified chat room. (Not that there is anything wrong with chat rooms, it's just not what I think Wikipedia ought to be. Nor you.)
• (c) That we adopt the same solution as is used by the vast majority of works that aim to be factual, comprehensive, scientific, and accessible to the general reader too - i.e., we use the correct capitalisation for species names.

I would be delighted to return to crafting factual, readable, accurate entries about fauna of all kinds. I have greatly enjoyed doing that over the last few months. But, fair dinkum, I have had a gutfull of constant hit and run edits that do nothing but spoil the result of all the effort I put in. I don't want to be unreasonable or petulant, but let's face it, we all only work on articles because we enjoy doing it and find it rewarding. I am no longer enjoying it, and it's no longer rewarding. As I have documented elsewhere, everyone who is doing bird entries on any significant scale has similar problems. It's not just me. I just happen to be the one who has reached the end of his tether first.

Best wishes, Tannin 03:57 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)

A long response is on the mailing list. I think it is time to compromise. --mav

It's really odd how the changing of just a couple of letters from upper to lower case "spoil the result of all the effort". -- Zoe

See the above, Zoe. It makes a correct and precise entry into vage and incorrect rambling. Not to mention the edit conflicts and general aggrivation. Tannin

Thank you for telling me, Mav. You are a gentleman and even if we disagree I always respect you. What I wrote on the mail was based on a number of emails I received from a number of quite experienced people on wiki, a number of whom are leaving over the capitalisation issue. I know I have been annoyed on occasion when I have gone to the trouble of double, treble and quadruple-checking capitalisation rules on something and then been overruled on wiki, where it has been insisted that it breaks naming conventions on capitalisation. On occasion I have checked with experts on the issue, and they would turn around and say wiki is 100% wrong. But still an edit war would erupt. A classic example was with Proportional Representation using the Single Transferable Vote which should be treated as a proper noun because it is the specific name of a specific voting system, but which ended up being renamed Single transferable vote before after a war finally put in as a partly correct Single Transferable Vote. The term can be used generically to refer to a proportional system using a single transferable vote, but when referring to a specific electoral system is, as a proper noun, capitalised (and written also as PR.STV, never ever pr.stv. (Google searches in this like so many other areas (the 'Charles Windsor' nonsense, for example) is simply wrong, and based on a mistake being copied and copied and copied by lots of people). I have changed plenty of capitals to small letters in articles where they should not be capitalised, but there are a scary number of areas where capitalisation should be automatic but has been removed. Anyway that is the issue. But it is driving some serious academic people away because they feel that academic standards are not being followed.

BTW, re China, I know I probably appeared Bolshie there (little communist-ish joke there :) ) but the point is that there is a strict number of definitions used to categorising states and Communist state is one. It does not define how communist a state is or pass judgments; it simply uses one of a list of I think 10 categories that are universally applied in all sourcebooks and textbooks to define which type of governmental system each state has. 172 and I repeated ad nausaum that the category only referred to the governmental system, not the political system, and went to the trouble to put a link defining what the term means, as I have with others on the list, Constitutional Monarchy, Popular Monarchy, Federal, Unitary state, Republic etc. But others on the page still misrepresented what we were talking about and got into discussions on the political system (a fundamentally different thing) or threw up 'alternatives' that do not exist. (A Nation means something completely different that is unrelated to system of government, socialist isn't on the list because it has at least nine meanings worldwide, so different wiki readers would interpret it differently depending on which political culture they were from - hence its non-use in sourcebooks as a definition - etc.) In the first minute of the first lecture to first year third level students on Chinese governments, they are told China is a Communist state. It is elementary an political science definition, taught from Washington, to Cape Town, Geneva to Dublin to Dubai. But not acceptable on the China talk page on wiki!

Finally (Ok you'll have to archive again!!!) could you please take a look at the Communist state page. The page is constructed purely as a definition on what the term means, ie the unique relationship between state and party that does not exist in any other system, hence the use of the term rather than any other. A number of people contributed to the page. One user still thinks the page is about communism, and keeps adding in heavily POV additions (on concentration camps, peasantry, etc) which (a) are a matter of controversy; (b) even if accurate belong on a page on communism or Chinese and USSR history, not on Communist state and so are utterly irrelevant, as is obvious from the two topics I mentiond. (Its like putting a mention of George W. Bush's linguistic prowess on a page on Federal Republic!) Every effort to remove this irrelevant material is reverted by its author, Fred Bauder. (Tannin's view on Fred's additions is on my talk page. It might be worth glancing at.) Maybe you could have a word with Fred. It is tedious for people who did a lot of good and interesting work on the page to keep having to revert it to remove irrelevant material. It can and perhaps should be debated elsewhere. But not on a page that it is purely on a 'system of government', not the history behind the party that runs that system of government. OK. I'll finish now. Sorry for taking up so much space and thank you for your notice. I appreciate your candour and good grace, even when I can be rather tactless and . . . em . . . bolshie sometimes. (Not in my politics, mind!) ÉÍREman 04:37 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)

Sometimes my impolite side sneaks through when I'm tired. Since I'm an INTJ these considerations are not automaticly adhered to or even considered - but I've learned through trial and error (much of which has been on Wikipedia) that considering the emotional impact of what I write is as important as the substantive content. Alas, I've spent literally the whole day on this capitalization issue so I'm meta'd out. I need to work on some real articles for a few hours in oder to restore my sanity. I'll take a look at the Communist state page early Monday your time. --mav

I've added in a reply on the wiki-list to your piece. It is, I think, slightly humourous in tone so it might cheer you up a bit!!! Anyway, having failed 7 days in a row to get to bed before dawn I'd better go now. PS - re the contributor's name below. Oh No. First when I saw Tuf-kat's nickname, the damned music of Top Cat kept going around . . . and around . . . and around . . . and around in my head. Now, re the name below, I'm going to bed with the image of Madonna writhing and singing 'Like a Virgin . . . OW . . . touched . . . " (The Ow in a Michael Jackson voice!!!) Not a nice image for a gay man as he heads to bed alone!!! Oiche Mhaith (ie goodnight) ÉÍREman 06:19 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC) (Of course this does not mean I will actually go to bed. I may spot something and go 'hey, I gotta look at that' as you Americans might say!!!)

LOL - thanks, now that song is going to haunt me too. :) --mav

Thank you for your greeting. Although the issue seems resolved, a user was deleting a paragrph of text I wrote in double jeopardy apparently because they wanted it to note that this was a US Constitutional right and they didn't like the fact that I said double jeopardy was related to Collateral Estoppel. After I noted that US constitutional right and changed it to read that double jeopardy was only similar to collateral estoppel they seem to have stopped removing my text, but it makes me rather unsure of myself. How should I proceed in such situations? Why did this user not want to discuss the text? What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future? Like a Virgin

That type of give and take is common around here. You seem to have handled it well but if you get into an edit war in the future then you might want to indicate so on Wikipedia:Edit wars in progress. --mav

Hi. Can you please help in some way. Once again, I am blocked. I tried to make an edit and I received the message "Goodbye Michael". This is getting ridiculous already. I have told Zoe this, and she responded that the ban will be lifted in a day. That is unacceptable to me. I understand that everyone is on a witchhunt because of a few rowdy users, but that is no reason to block me as collateral damage. Danny

What IP address range are you using? There does not appear to be any blocked IPs with the comment "Goodbye Michael" for their summary. Also, why the heck are you not a sysop? --mav

Yes. WHY THE HECK AREN'T YOU A SYSOP? Your workload and quality of it suggests you'd be an ideal one, Danny. (See Mav, I'm not gone to bed yet. Afraid of images of writhing Madonnas! BTW, I took a look at Double jeopardy. If it is a formal legal title, shouldn't it be treated as a proper noun? Hah. The Capitalisation Debate Rolls On. . . . hee . . . hee . . . hee . . . ÉÍREman 06:37 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)

I actually copyedit or make minor amendments to many articles, including such oddities as throat-singing. What I don't do is to change, for example, US spelling or usage to British English (or vice versa), because this would be rightly considered unacceptable.

To me, replacing my correct capitals with lower case is the same sort of unneccesary irritating behaviour.

On the broader issue of redirects, in the bird articles you will always have lots of these anyway, because of varying English names, and sometimes scientific names, eg US Parasitic Jaeger= UK Arctic skua, which should of course be [[Arctic Skua]] jimfbleak

Redirects need to become less ugly - then everybody will be much happier. Sorry in advance for my mean response to your mean email to the mailing list. --mav

Thanks for the greetings. If you see any newbie mistakes, don't hesitate to let me know! Sam.

No problemo and I'm sure you will do fine. --mav

Thanks, but you have a long ways to go if you plan to add over 100 element table pics! --PY

Yeah - it'll take a while. --mav

This summer I am sure I can retake these, and I should have closeup lenses by then, so I can do much better. How much better resolution would you like? These were clipped from 4 megapixel photos taken in pairs (left side of table and right side of table) and are near real size (but clearly at the resolution limits of the full photo). -- RTC 06:16 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)

That would be great! Simply having the closeup lense with a 5MP camera should do the trick. --mav

When I took these, I wasted most of the camera's resolution getting the complete box (about 20 in. square) containing the samples (the vials are only just over 1 in. tall). I did one row at a time and took a pair of pictures (covering an area of about 28 by 20 in. with alot of overlap), planning to create a set of "panoramic" photos showing each row of the table. It was later that I got the idea of clipping out individual photos. Even without closeup lenses, a 4MP photo of only 3 to 5 vials on a white background would likely give the clippings adaquate resolution for use here. With closeup lenses I can probably do 2 or 3 vials in one photo and get way more resolution than you should need (4MP JPEGs from this camera average about 1 megabyte!). I would never take a separate 4MP photo for each vial, just too much work! -- RTC 00:11 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

Will you be my friend? Like a Virgin

In time perhaps - I first need to get to know you. --mav

Mav, PLEASE intervene in [Communist state]]. At this stage, Tannin, 172 and I have had to do nearly 20 reversions. No-one (except Shino Baku!) agrees with what Fred Bauder is doing. He himself admits his additions are "unbalanced". But even if they were NPOV, everyone is agreed he is putting them into the WRONG ARTICLE. But he will listen to absolutely no-one. Instead he does not nothing but keeps reverting, reverting, reverting to put his irrelevant right wing rant into the text. Someone needs to protect the page because Tannin, 172, myself and others (who have admitted themselves disgusted that no-one has intervened to stop this blatent vandalism that has been going no now for days and are offering to help reverting) cannot and will not spend all our time guarding one page from what at this stage is outright vandalism. If it doesn't stop, I'll have to ask Jimbo to have a word with the user if not ban him entirely. I only came on here this morning for one minute to check one thing. Already I have had to do two revertions, as did Tannin. This has to be stopped. ÉÍREman 10:19 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)

Just tell the lads there's work to be done. The curtain rod in the Black and Decker, its end fresh bevelled, its line trued up by hammering on the coal bunker... One can always wonder. Curiously, I know a Fred Stauder. PML.

Thanks PML. I just find it bizarre that when so many people (bar Lir of course, so no change there) tell Fred he is wrong, he just goes right ahead and reverts to his version every time. Not a single person (left wing, right wing, mor) finds his version NPOV and even if it all, everyone is in agreement it is the wrong page to put it at. And yet he still won't get the message!!! ÉÍREman 10:45 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)

Opps! Sorry, I got distracted with making nav table images for the element articles. Be right there. --mav

Thank you for the welcome message, and the help links. Susanth 23:11 Apr 28, 2003 (UTC)

Me too. Thanks! Uyanga

Not a problem. :) --mav

Hi Mav. Please take a look at the Johnny Rebel discussion. Danny

Done. It is on my watchlist. If needed I'll protect the page. --mav

Hi Mav, sorry I may have received your email but technical problems are causing havoc here. At various times tonight on wiki, my keyboard has gone wonky, typing y for z, z for y, refusing to type ~, etc. This only ever happens when I am on wiki. I can use this browser for days elsewhere and no problems occur, but spend a few hours on wiki and it starts and I have a frustrating, infuriating time. When I started archiving communist state, I ended up cutting and pasting [ and ], colons, ~s, ( and ). It drove me bloody well mad. It has occured using both safari and I Explorer 5.2 for the Mac but only ever with wiki. In the end I just left the computer and began playing with my new digital computer (Its official. I am now someone with a photograph on wikipedia. It is great fun going for a five minute walk down the road here at 8.30pm to take a particular image I wanted for wiki, then coming back and putting it onto a wiki page, and hey presto it is now available to millions, with no copyright issues whatsoever!!! I have now transferred over onto the new camera an old picture I took of Mary Robinson's resignation as president of Ireland - I was invited to attend it as Mary's guest so now I can put an image of it on wiki too when I get the chance, an 'exclusive' shot of a resignation in the President's residence, copyright-free!) I have mentioned this browser trouble on the village pump page. Maybe someone will know what is going off. Is it a Mac thing? The fact that it always occurs on wiki suggests it must be linked to wiki and its relationship with Mac browsers.

BTW, I know I was argumentative on the communist state page, but there is very good reason. On China, people didn't want to use the definition there because they didn't understand it, then the same people who said they didn't understand it came to the definition page and tried to plant much the same stuff there as they had tried and failed to plant everywhere else (not that it was blocked in other places because it was irrelevant, just that it was blatently POV in those version to the point of absurdity.) And yes, Communist state is a basic definition used worldwide. It is not about communism. It is not about a state. It is as the name suggests Communist+state. And colleagues of mine in departments of History, Politics, China Studies, lecturers in politics who lecture on Russia (and previously the USSR), China and other states internationally described as Communist States are at a loss, as I am, as to what the problem is and find people's inability to understand that the type of communism or status of communism in these states is of no consequence whatsoever to the definition, baffling. And so do other academic friends of mine totally outside the area, and a journalist who covered both China and the USSR for Irish newspapers. It is a clear, precise, narrow definition of a clear, precise narrow issue. Why people want to go all over the place and introduce stuff that is completely irrelevant on that page I cannot for the life of me understand. From people continuously misunderstanding the definition, to introducing all sort of bizarre alternatives ('nation', a totally different thing that has nothing to do with governmental systems, to 'socialist state', a non-existent definition for obvious reasons (socialist is not linked to a system of government means something different in almost every political culture on the planet) ) At least Fred has stopped his reversions, which in the end must have numbered fifteen to twenty, because that is how many reversions, Tannin, 172 and myself and I think one or two orginal contributors to the page had to do.

Sometimes Mav, even you can be argumentative. :-) Anyway, with this camera, the historian in me may end up taking second place to the photographer! Wikilove. ÉÍREman 03:56 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC) PS: have I pushed you yet over the 32K with my longwindedness, or will I have to come back and add some more? (ONLY JOKING!)

Hi Mav, I'm going to sleep. Can you please freeze the Johnny Rebel page. I would do it myself but I am involved in the war. Also, my general policy is not to engage racists in dialogue because it grants them legitimacy. Danny

Do you think after the elemnts prject is done you might do the antielements? eg antihydrogen, antilithium, antisulfur, antialuminium?

I don't think the project will ever be "done" since I plan on constantly improving the articles. But there will be a point after all the articles are "mostly done." When that happens we could concentrate our efforts on creating articles for the anti-elements but I don't think there really is much to say nor very good sources of info we all would have access to on them. But I would find it interesting to incorporate at least introductory material on the anti-elements in their corresponding element articles. I've already planned that for the major compounds of every element. --mav

Please take a look at: User:Fonzy/sandbox -fonzy, not much change as you can see.

Do you think i shuld implement it into the already existing antihydrogen article? -fonzy

? But those are the properties of hydrogen NOT antihydrogen, no? --mav

Just an apology for not being able to act: earlier today I happened to notice 142.177.12.18 making edits with derogatory comments about you. (I'm not sure what set that troll off.) I would have reverted these edits -- or at least sent you & Jimbo a note alerting you to what was happening . . . but I was at work & my boss appeared for the first time in over a week with a project that needed immediate attention. Sigh. The one time I can redeem myself & life interferes. -- llywrch 01:00 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

Hey - that's cool. BTW why do you feel it necessary to redeem yourself with me? I don't recall any bad blood between us... --mav

Primarily I felt a need for an apology because I had the chance to take action about something wrong, but unfortunately it proved out of my control.

As for ``redeem myself" -- well, AFAIK there is no trouble between us, but over the last few weeks I seem to have gotten onto the wrong side of a few regulars. The handicap of the Internet is because you lack the immediate feedback, you can never be sure if everyone else thinks you are a dog. (To allude to the famous New Yorker cartoon -- & if you haven't seen that cartoon then, substitute troll for dog. :) -- llywrch 01:43 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

Basicly all the propeties of elements are the same as anti-elements, except antielements have positrons instead of electrons and the Valance Number is negative, however the genral information like when/if it has been formed etc will be different and any other info specifficly about it. -fonzy

Huh? I wasn't aware there was enough antihydrogen around to do tests on. We therefore can't know much about the properties of the anti-elements and therefore shouldn't guess at them (even if in theory they should be the same - we can simply state that "in theory the properties should be the same"). The tables are mainly for empirical data - guesswork should be left to a bare minimum. --mav

well information baout antimatter to be foudn here: http://www.matter-antimatter.com (tough how accurate it is, i dont know) - fonzy

Hey Mav, wanna laugh? Look at the joke on the talk page of Saddam Hussein. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Saddam but it worth leaving just to cheer people up after all the heavy facts about Saddam and the war. (BTW I don't know what is the american equivalent of Essex girls but I'm sure there is one. We have our own in Ireland, Dublin northside women. An Irish equivalent of the joke is how do you know an Northside woman has has an orgasm? She drops her chips (or as you yanks call them, french/freedom fries!) Dreadfully sexist I know, but then most people I know but most of the people I know who tell those jokes as women!) wikilove and all that. ÉÍREman 17:34 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

LOL. Bad, bad JT! -- mav

Hey Mav, I seem to have forgotten the shortcuts for the signoff with the time/date stamp. Clue me in?

---Dante Alighieri <--- had to do that manually. :(

Three ~ in a row = mav, four in a row = mav 20:03 May 1, 2003 (UTC). --mav

This is a rather scary and depressing thing to read: http://www.matter-antimatter.com/armageddon.htm -fonzy

Nothing the worry about - those people are crackpots (they speak of Atlantis as if it were a historical fact - we simply don't know). --mav

well your better at science that i am, so i go by your word, any "quack" could word things in scientific way to frighten ppl.(The same is true about statistics you can twist them in anyway you want to support your ideas). IMO Atlantis was some kind of plae that existed, but the "great flood" in the bible and othe texts destroyed. Thats my theory. - fonzy. BTW how do you like my Eurovision Pages For example:Eurovision Song Contest 1957. O also i dont think Antlantis was soem high-tech society thast just silly, also it obvioulsy wasn;t called atlantis.

That page looks good - very nice. --mav

Not that Michael! :) Tannin

I just came on to say that too. Not that Michael. Though my Adam I am sure he is probably here too under another identity. BTW, is wiki under siege these days from trolls? We've got the many personalities of DW, Adam's troll-central stormtroopers, Michael and his Minions, etc. I have expect some day Saddam Hussein will appear and start vandalising articles about Iraq. Or moustaches. LOL. ÉÍREman 00:59 May 2, 2003 (UTC)

Of course, then we'll be stuck wondering whether the alternate personalities are actually body doubles or just the usual personality switching we seem to attract. -- John Owens

---

Hi Mav, could you put Wim van Est on the recent deaths at the main page? Thx, Jeronimo

Done. Nice to see you are still around. :) --mav

Wow, that's fast. Yeah, Wikipedia still great, it's just I got fed up with some of the Wikipedians. Jeronimo

Hello, Mr. Maveric. Sorry for putting a "k" on the end of your name earlier. Terribly illiterate of me, I know. ;) By the way, it's telling me that this page is 38 kilobytes long. Scary... -- Oliver P. 02:14 May 3, 2003 (UTC)

No biggie - you just spelt it right! --mav

Thanks Mav, I have removed the jay image for now and put the earlier one back. I may ask if I can use it some time as it is far better than the one there now. It shows the whole bird for one thing. Cheers. Steve nova 21:41 May 5, 2003 (UTC)

Cool. It is always better to ask (most of the time people say "yes"). --mav

It is difficult to tell if 217.235.14.62 is a bot or just someone in a focused moment. 217.235.14.62 has been posting ISO codes for geographical locations, which is great for articles that exist, but not so helpful with articles that didn't yet exist (See 217.235.14.62 contributions under New pages). I tried to tell the user not to create new articles like that, but the user continues. What is to be done? Kingturtle 03:57 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

Ignoring talk is bad. I'll block the IP for a few minutes to get their attention. --mav

Fine, thanks. I finished my film!  :-D The pressure is off now. Just hanging out watching movies and Simpsons episodes for a stretch. ... I tried to install Mandrake 7.0 (from an old disk) but it wouldn't respect the partition--saw the entire physical drive as one. Hence my experimentation with Linux is at a standstill where I stopped it 3 years ago. How are you? Koyaanis Qatsi

I'm fine. Just got my Internet connection back up. But in the process of trying to figure out what was preventing me from accessing the 'net I disabled just about everything on my computer and am running on a bare bones install. I'm also sick of TV once again! I'm glad to hear that your film is done - I hope it went well. Wow - Mandrake 7 (the memories). You should try LM 9.1 - it rocks! late. --mav

The film went fine. It's gotten unprovoked praise, the best kind. I'll look into Mandrake 9.1, maybe it will know what to do with a partition. I would like to learn it, if only because I think Microsoft is a 600-lb. gorilla.  :-) Yeah, and TV's bland right now. Koyaanis Qatsi

Mav, I thought plants were in green taxoboxes and animals, insects etc. were in pink? Koyaanis Qatsi

That's not a taxobox. It is a dog breed box (an early one). I'm pretty sure they are using pink as their standard color (at least until they think of a good color scheme for the major breed branches). Dog is the species page and thus the only one that should have a taxobox. Hm, I wonder if plant varieties should be treated the same... (headache) --mav

Oh wow. That's going to cause some confusion. And no, I don't have an easy solution. Koyaanis Qatsi

Hey Mav, just curious, what digital camera do you have, and what do you think of it? I'm thinking about getting one for this summer. Sorry if you've already answered this somewhere. Also, were you going to merge/redirect Border collie? Thanks -- Minesweeper 06:18 May 6, 2003 (UTC)

I have a Sony Cybershot DSC-P71 which has 3x optical zoom, 2x digital and takes AA batteries and Sony Digital Disks. The camera itself cost $US 320. It takes really good photos (not the best I've seen from a digital camera but the best I've seen at the relatively cheap price I paid). A example couple examples are at Sacramento, California. It also takes good close-up shots. See media:thumb-Unknown yellow flower at the mouth of Titus Canyon.JPG. But you really should do a bit of research and try to imagine what you want to be able to do with your camera. Check out ZDnet's 3-4 megapixel reviews for other good cameras. In fact the camera I really wanted was the Canon PowerShot G3 which is a semi-pro camera that can take Canon lenses and IBM Microdrives (up to 1 GB). But that camera is way too expensive for me (it is also a bit on the large size). Do stay away from Kodak cameras - they suck. --mav

Thanks for your reply... I guess I have some homework to do. One more question though: Do you have to carry extra Memory Sticks with you while traveling, or were you just picky with what images you held on to? -- Minesweeper 09:37 May 6, 2003 (UTC)