Talk:Babini Group
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Move
[edit]Changed title to Babini Group to correspond to Maletti Group.Keith-264 (talk) 11:05, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
Expansion
[edit]I'm having a bit of trouble with the early days of the group since the original text had it that the Babini Group was sent from Italy but the best source I can find (Christie) is clear that it was formed in Libya and that there were several dispatches of tank units from Italy before the war began, the two M13/40 battalions being those rushed across after Compass.Keith-264 (talk) 22:56, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Recent edits
[edit]@Noclador: Thanks for your edits; I'm curious about the change to 32nd Tank Infantry Regiment though. My sources were quite limited, which shows in the article, do you have better ones? Regards Keith-264 (talk) 10:00, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
- I am currently writing articles for all Italian Army regiments/battalions active after World War II. Italian tank regiments of the World War II era were all named "Reggimento Fanteria Carrista", with "Carrista" being untranslatable. It comes from Carri = Tanks and is used as an adjective to describe the preceding word: so a rough translation would be "Tanked Infantry Regiment". A better translation is therefore Armored Infantry Regiment. If you wonder why "Infantry" - until 1 June 1999 the tank units were part of the infantry and only then transferred to the cavalry. Post World War II the army first used "Reggimento Carristi" (Tankers Regiment) before settling in 1958 on "Reggimento Carri" (Tanks Regiment). If you have a look at the currently active Italian tank regiments on the Italian Army website: 4° Carri, 31° Carri, 32° Carri, 132° Carri; they were all founded as "Reggimento Fanteria Carrista". As for more sources: what do you need? what are you looking for? noclador (talk) 15:05, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
- Your source for your edits, I assumed that they were literary, which are preferred to online sources. Regards PS I reverted your changes before reading this so perhaps you could indicate more about where in the sources you took the information and I can put the edits back and cite then with your information. Keith-264 (talk) 08:35, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
- My other sources are the Italian Army's website, the army's cavalry museum's website, the army's official regimental histories published by the army's history office in a 6-volume book, the tankers association's website, a booklet about the history of the Italian tankers by Maurizio Parri (which you have too it seems), and where possible I also look for the original documents. I.e. I just edited the Babini Group's entry with literal translations from Graziani's order to establish the Comando carri armati della Libia. Interestingly, unlike Italian books about the era, Graziani doesn't use "M" "L" or the also used "M13/40" to denote the battalions. He uses: "Medio" and "Leggero". So I used these terms for the Babini article. Here is an online version of Graziani's order. noclador (talk) 22:52, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
- If you refer to a primary source you are as vulnerable being questioned about whether it's a RS as you are by relying on a website. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 22:58, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
- Your source for your edits, I assumed that they were literary, which are preferred to online sources. Regards PS I reverted your changes before reading this so perhaps you could indicate more about where in the sources you took the information and I can put the edits back and cite then with your information. Keith-264 (talk) 08:35, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
Recent edits
[edit]@Noclador: Hello, have you changed M and L (medium and light) by mistake or is it deliberate? Regards Keith-264 (talk) 12:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Keith-264: I changed the "L" to L and the "M" to the type of tank a battalion used. The reason is I just got hold of Royal Italian Army data about the army's tank units and the naming convention at the time was: "## Battaglione carri L" for units with L3/35 tankettes (## = the battalion's number). A literal translation would be: ## L Tanks Battalion. Same goes for medium battalions: "## Battaglione carri MXX/XX" (## = battalion number and XX/XX = the type of M tank). Again a literal translation would be i.e. III M13/40 Tanks Battalion. As we have been using ## Tank Battalion "M" on wikipedia so far, I decided to not revise all the medium tank battalion names to ## MXX/XX Tanks Battalion, but rather to ## Tank Battalion MXX/XX. The L and M tank battalions were sequential, and in case they changed their equipment the MXX/XX changed too. I.e. the LI Tank Battalion M13/40 was sunk on the way to Libya, returned to its depot, got equipped with M14/41 tanks, and changed its name to LI Tank Battalion M14/41. I hope you're ok with these changes. I am expanding currently the 19 Italian Army tank unit articles, and am using the ## Tank Battalion MXX/XX format. Best regards, noclador (talk) 12:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
PS: this is the list of medium tank battalions. For the latter battalions the data is inconclusive, as they kept receiving and ceding tanks while still in training:
- I Tank Battalion M11/39
- II Tank Battalion M11/39
- III Tank Battalion M13/40
- IV Tank Battalion M13/40
- V Tank Battalion M13/40
- VI Tank Battalion M13/40
- VII Tank Battalion M13/40
- VIII Tank Battalion M13/40
- IX Tank Battalion M13/40
- X Tank Battalion M13/40
- XI Tank Battalion M13/40
- XII Tank Battalion M13/40 - tanks lost at sea, battalion then received M14/41 tanks
- XIII Tank Battalion M13/40 - ceded its tanks to units in Libya, battalion then received M14/41 tanks
- XIV Tank Battalion M13/40
- XV Tank Battalion M13/40
- XVI Tank Battalion M13/40 (might have received M15/42)
- XVII Tank Battalion M??/??
- XVIII Tank Battalion M14/41 (might have received M15/42)
- XIX Tank Battalion M15/42
- LI Tank Battalion M14/41
- LII Tank Battalion M14/41