Talk:Yaduvanshi Ahirs
This looks like a copy-paste from Ahirs. How is this article different? utcursch | talk 18:42, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
For those who want refrences that Yaduvanshi ahirs desent from Yadu
Ahirs have yaduvanshi's clan and claim to be rajput origin:-
Yaduvanshi ahirs with rajput origin
http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=typmTffGFMitrAf22YXbCg&ct=result&id=6uMhAQAAIAAJ&dq=jadubanshi+ahirs&q=ahirs http://books.google.co.in/books?id=xQM9voN21ekC&pg=PA182&dq=jadubanshi+ahirs&hl=en&ei=typmTffGFMitrAf22YXbCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=jadubanshi&f=false
By H A Rose
William crooke
Sir Herbert Hope Risley
http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=mixmTaqENIOurAe_m9naCg&ct=result&id=wqeBAAAAMAAJ&dq=jadubanshi+ahirs&q=jadu Lucia Michelutti
Anthropological Survey of India
India. Office of the Registrar General http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=dC5mTc_bGMnlrAemme3aCg&ct=result&id=yWaaAAAAIAAJ&dq=yaduvanshi++ahirs&q=yaduvanshi+ Rajasthan [district Gazetteers http://books.google.co.in/books?id=z4YbAAAAIAAJ&q=yaduvanshi++ahirs&dq=yaduvanshi++ahirs&hl=en&ei=5S5mTfWtHovMrQei4eXaCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDYQ6AEwATgU
University of Oxford. Institute of Social Anthropology, Research Centre on Social and Economic Development in Asia
By H.A. Rose, IBBETSON, Maclagan http://books.google.co.in/books?id=1QmrSwFYe60C&pg=PA86&dq=jadubansi++ahirs&hl=en&ei=vi9mTZieAsj5rAfytNjaCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=jadubansi%20%20&f=false
- None of the ref says they are of Rajput origin. Plz. don't repeat this again. Ikon No-Blast 18:55, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
For those you want proof of connection between Yaduvanshi ahirs and Yadu Rajputs
Please go through these links :- http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=QENrTejJOM6HrAeqoenCCw&ct=result&id=tYaLDvSBEsUC&dq=jadubansi+ahirs+rajputs&q=claim+descent+from+Rajputs
Sir H.M Elloitbook "Indian castes and tribes" say Yadubansi Rajputs are derived from the Yadubansi Ahirs,please chek celow link
page-283
A. H. Bingley says that ahirs used to get rajput status {go to gae 26}:-
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=Cc2HyXP5dygC&pg=PA163&dq=Ahirs+descent++Rajputs&hl=en&ei=uUZrTcOuJ8bprAef9vzCCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBQ#v=snippet&q=Ahir&f=false —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.21.182.12 (talk) 07:46, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Your citation says the connection is probable. nobody is objecting to it. However, it is vague and we cannot take any definitive stand on this. Col Todd's words are already there. nothing more is required in this regard. Ikon No-Blast 17:19, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
These Ahirs(Abhiras) came from Eastern Iran
"The Abhiras who came from some part of Eastern Iran seem to have settled at first in northern Sindh."
Uttankita Sanskrit Vidya-Aranya epigraphs, Volume 2
Prāci-jyotī: digest of Indological studies, Volume 10-page-113
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=AqKw1Mn8WcwC&pg=PA32&dq=#v=onepage&q=abiravan&f=false
The tribes and castes of Bombay, Volume 1 By Reginald Edward Enthoven--page -23
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=AqKw1Mn8WcwC&pg=PA32&dq=
Oriental studies, Part 1-page-57
The History and Culture of the Indian People: The age of imperial unity-page-221
Catalogue of the Coins of the Andhra Dynasty, the Western Ksatrapas, the ... By E.J. Rapson
The Age of imperial unity, Volume 2, Part 1-page-221
Advanced history of India
Geographical data in the early Purāṇas: a critical study-page-129
New light thrown on the history of India: the historical Naga kings of India, 6th C.B.C.-14th C.A.D.-page-76
Buddhism in western India-page-54
India as seen in the Bṛhatsaṁhitā of Varāhamihira-page-65
Some early dynasties of South India By S. Chattopadhyaya
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=78I5lDHU2jQC&pg=PA127&dq=abhiras+came+from+eastern+iran&hl=en&ei=9kOtTaaGOcjSrQeF_pz7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=Abiravan%2C%20in%20eastern%20Iran%2C&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raosaab7 (talk • contribs) 08:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
Why can't this article be merged with Ahirs?
Are there any Ahirs who don't claim descent from Yadu? Is there distinct classes of Yaduvanshi and non-Yaduvanshi Ahirs, or can this whole article just be merged into Ahirs? MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:06, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
All ahirs are not kshatriyas, also remember not all ahirs are Shudras.
Yaduvanshi Ahirs are descendants of 'Yadu' and are of Kshatriyas Varna.
Nandvanshi Ahirs are descendants of Nand cowherd who was of Vaishya varna.
Gwalvanshi Ahirs were gwals { considered as Shudras ) who also believe that as their forefathers moved with Krishna so they are also Yadavs , they dont have gotras like Yaduvanshi and Nandvanshi.
The most intersting fact is they all three don't intermarry.Sumitkachroo (talk) 11:23, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
- Good points, I had read on the Nandvanshi and Gwalvanshi, but got mixed up about whether they also claimed Yadu descent as Yadavs. In any case, looking at this article, I'm not seeing any content that's not repeated in Ahir and/or Yadav, except for a few small points where the reference explictly says "Yaduvanshi Ahir", and I'm pretty sure we could just add those as a sub-section of Ahir. Do you not agree that 90% of this article is just a repeat of content from Ahir and Yadav? MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:47, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
- Okay, I took a harder look at it. Most of the article didn't even mention the specifically Yaduvanshi Ahirs, so those portions were redundant to Ahirs and I removed them. Then a few areas mentioned Yaduvanshi Ahirs, yet the footnotes they cited just said "Ahirs", so same as above removed. The third category is the few cases where both the article and the cited text say "Yaduvanshi". I've left those, though there's probably some redunant stuff mixed up in there too. Let's take a look at GoogleBooks for "Yaduvanshi" and its various spellings, and work the article up from scratch in a way that is specific to the Yaduvanshi Ahir, with the more general "Ahirs overall" content being kept in Ahirs, and umbrella-group Yadav info there. Sound good? This way we can avoid the massive tangled redundancy. MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:22, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Good that you are taking so much interest on yadavs and ahirs, initially i did a lot of research on tribes of north indian including gujjars and jats . Articles about jats , gujjars and ahir / yadavs are full of pride and martial history, If you go to jats these have clubbed their martial history with Sikh jats however both are different and do not intermarry same goes with Article on Gujjars who have mentioned themselves as Kshatriyas and Brahmans and like jats immigrants from Europe.The fact is according to cast hierarchy it is rajputs , jats , yadav /ahirs and then Gujjars/ meenas .My whole point is this is a very sensitive issue as many clans of rajputs , Yaduvanshi ahirs {not other 2 ahirs}, jats and Gujjars have common roots. So make sure if you have taken this task you do the same with other sisiter caste communities.Sumitkachroo (talk) 09:34, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
The link of jaduvanshi or yaduvanshi ahirs with Bhatti clan of Rajputs.Hence shows they are Kshatriyas. The Tribes and Castes of the Central Provinces of India. Forgotten Books. pp. 24–. ISBN 9781440048920. Retrieved 3 June 2011. {page 24)Sumitkachroo (talk) 07:49, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
- That's a very useful page you cite, good source for laying out the different branches. Do note though, we do need to make sure we don't make the sources say anything they don't explicitly say. The book says "claimed" descent, so we need to make sure that we don't say "totally true" when the book says "claimed".
- These are indeed sensitive issues, and ideally all India caste articles should be cleaned of bias, but in the meantime we are only two people, and "other articles are bad too" is no reason not to clean up the Ahir/Yadav articles. One question on scope: do you concur that the scope of this particular article should be "Yadav" in the context of the Ahir-Yadav agricultural caste, rather than "everything ever called Yadav"? I just fear that the earlier versions of the article linked in everyone ever claiming descent from Yadu, rather than focusing on the modern Ahir-Yadav umbrella caste. Thoughts?
These is no refrence i could found (even on google books) that says that Rajput Yaduvanshi's ever used Yadav as last name. But ahir Yadav's gives me About 1,100,000 hots on Goolge.Yaduvanshi Ahirs use Yadav as last name since more than 600 years (Refrence available on google books) , however in 1900 many groups of Ahirs (leaving aside Gujrati and Marathi ahirs) satrted using Yadav as last name. Those were mailnly Gwalvanshi's and Nand vanshi's. These gwalvanshi are mixed blood of many tribes including Gonds. However now Indian government recognises all ahirs and it's subcastes as Yadavs.However Yadu vanshi is a very big umbrella that inclused many tribes of Rajputs (including Muslim rajputs) like Tomar,Chauhan,Jadeja,Jadoon Patahans,Rathors,Meos,Chudasama, Jadaun,Bhatti,Tanwar,Khanzada etc. even Jats and obviously Yaduvanshi ahirs as name says comes under Yadu-vansh.
Historians view on Yaduvanshi Ahir's
According to A. H. Bingley, writing in 1899, Jadu settlements were at Indraprastha and Dwarka.After the death of Krishna the yadus were driven out of India, founded Ghazni in Afganistan, and ruled over the whole of that country and portions of central Asia, as far north as Samarkand.The pressure of Greeko Bactrian and Muhammadan invasion forced them back into the Punjab, and later period they were driven across the Satluj into the Bikaner desert, where they established themselves as Jaisalmer. In the Punjab the Yadus are known as Bhattis, but comparatively few are Hindus , the majority are converted to Islam,shortly after the early Muhammadan conquests.A large number of the Musalmans of eastern Rajputana are of Yadu descent , and are known locally as Khansadas amd Meo's.
In Awadh and in the North Western provinces where the Yadons have numerous settlements, the clan is divided.One branch calls itself Yaduvanshi Ahirs, to distinguish it from Yadons of the Daob, who have lost status through practising Karao or widow -marriage, and through violating Rajput custom by marrying into their own clan.Sumitkachroo (talk) 07:14, 6 June 2011 (UTC)