Talk:Nigger: Difference between revisions

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I could cite at least one or two examples of people using the word "nigger" as something of a slur against racists - you use the word to project racist attitudes onto another person which you believe them to hold. I've heard it once or twice but I'd like to know if it's a notable and frequent enough usage to warrant comment. --Jammoe (talk) 18:01, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. People do this to me all the time in political debates. I've never once, in my entire life, used the word nigger out loud, nor in writing for that matter except as a quote, but I'm a Republican and Democrats will always say things like "so Soap*, what're you gonna do when the nigger gets in power?" etc etc. *not my real name of course Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 13:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, but also, even whites are called nigger among their African-American friends. It seems to be acceptable within the presence of agreeable relationships. For instance, a black friend of mine would call another white person "his nigger" (ie. his friend or buddy). And then sometimes, although there would need to be proof provided, people have used the word nigger just to describe something else, race unrelated. It's like how other people substitute a word for another. ie. "Move that joint over here." Doesn't mean they are talking about a real illegal drug joint. Or calling someone "guy". I've heard people say, that nigger is broke or I dropped that nigger. This is unrelated to "nigger-rigged or "renigged" (this is from a real non-racist word reneged which is almost always mispronounced and quoted). [1] Most of this type of talk is done in more urban-related areas usually as slang. See entire usage: [2] At any rate, I did a search online and found plenty of sources/citations for the following statement someone put in the article (not to mention many can just look at a magazine, t.v. show and/or album and see it's that way): "Today, the implied racism of the term is so strong that the use of nigger in most situations is a social taboo.[citation needed] Many American magazines and newspapers will not even print the word in full, instead using "n*gg*r", "n*ger", "n——", or "the N-word."[citation needed]" 2legit2quit2 (talk) 21:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is where white people tend to mix things up a bit. Black people rarely call each other niggers (Bullshit nigger YOU LIE). The word they use is nigga...which is not derogatory like the word nigger(Yea, it's different in detail, RIGHT). Calling someone a nigga or my nigga is the same as calling ones white friends bud or dude or calling ones black friends bro. Though whites hear it they cant tell the difference because most dont speak slang and when they hear the word nigga they only believe they mean nigger. They become confused because they don't understand why black people call each other it all the time and white people cant say it. Simple fact of the matter is it's not the same word. I'm a nigger and I know. XnoXes (talk) 23:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is not different, it's the same. I'm black and I don't want any white people calling me the n-word. There's no difference between the two. It's the same. Are you going to say "yes" and "yeah" and "you" and "ya" are different? I will say to any person of any color to not use that term towards me. It's also disrespectful to our history. I am a racist nitpicker. Urabahn (talk) 17:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Negro" in Portuguese and Spanish is not a derogative term, as it is stated in the article. It is the word for the color black. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.226.77 (talk) 15:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also in many italian dialects:Montenegro#Name. In Italy the word "negro/i", used to refer to black people from Africa, was not considered derogatory until the '90s, when african immigrants began to take it as an insult.--84.222.239.52 (talk) 19:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard that rene is considered an offensive term for blacks in the Spanish-speaking areas of the Caribbean (Dominican Republic, Cuba, maybe some others) but it doesnt seem to appear in any dictionary. Also, negrito rather than negro often appears. I dont think either of them is considered offensive by themselves, but sometimes it can be offensive just to mention someone's race. It doesnt work as well in English because you dont usually say "hey look, blacks!!", but in Romance languages, adjectives and nouns are the same, so you can do things like that. Though, by no means is it limited to black people. Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 13:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Russian language, word "Негр" (phonetically sounds "Negr" and means "dark-skinned person") is widely used in a common every-day language, including national news channels, newspapers, schools and official documents. In addition, Russian passport format requires person's nationality or ethnicity to be clearly endorsed on one of the pages, such as "Russian", "Jewish", "Estonian", etc. Therefore the word "Негр" is officially used to describe person's ethnicity in their passport in case this person happened to be a Russian citizen of an African origin.

The meaning of this word does not imply any kind of derogatory bias and by no means relate to the American or British meaning of the word "Nigger" or "Negro" which over the years became almost synonymous with the words like "slave", "underprivileged" or "second citizen".

Sadly, in United States Russian emigrants to not change their lexicon while speaking Russian in reference to black persons which sounds very much like English word "Negro". Needless to say that this creates a lot of potentially dangerous misunderstandings from the side of black population and a few cases were known when freshly-immigrated Russian kids were severely beaten by black kids in schools, when they were heard using Russian word "Негр" in a conversations between each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr nachem (talk • contribs) 07:01, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Russian passports do not require any such thing. You're confusing them with Soviet passports. No objections in regards to the rest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.81.141 (talk) 17:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please do NOT undo edits because you feel they don't add anything. State a tangible reason. Opening description was edited to reword 'black' to African-American or African. The term 'nigga' is a subjective pop culture term that does NOT belong in the opening paragraph. It is something not widely used. Just because you, your friends, or two black folks you know use the term doesn't mean it deserves wikipedia.org callout. Furthermore, it is important to note that the term has dual meaning instead of referring to 'nigga', why not refer to nizzle? All those items OR OTHER STUFF as you like to call it belong in the body of the article. The opening should just summarize and allude to further details to come as this new wording does. -Spencer,Leon 00:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Errr. You do realise that your versions still has a link to nigga in the opening paragraph. Its also a well sourced and stable article. You might like to provide some reliable sources for "The strife between pop culture and politically correct culture has led to attempts to avoid words with similar pronunciation - e.g. Niger, niggardly, and negro. Some use derivations such as nig, nigga, niggaz, and nizzle to reflect kinship while avoiding a direct pronunciation of nigger." because it reads very much like your opinion, rather than an accurate reflection of the literature. Rockpocket 00:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Very off hand comment I have to say an article on "Nigger" deserves a reference to "Nigga" early in the article as the two terms are very linked and both (sadly) very popular. Yes I understand there is a huge difference between the two spellings. 220.70.250.246 (talk) 14:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Parts of the paragraph (if not all) are complete nonsense and needs to be rewritten.

This needs to change : "Australians, black or white, do not on the whole have the same sensitivity to the word as Americans, at least when it is used in a light-hearted, non-derogatory fashion among established groups of friends."

As well as this: "The relaxed attitude is mainly because there was no direct African slave trading."

The whole tone of the paragraph seems to suggest that in Australia we're more relaxed about the use of the word. That's completely false.

Nah, I'm old enough and Australian enough to know that the word historically and in my lifetime (getting close to the same thing) nigger has never had the same usage or effect as it has in the US. Boong and to a much lesser extent Coon (rather lately...almost never used in the 1950s) are the racist words for darker skinned peoples here; Aborigine and Koori being the non offensive words used now (well, apart from mate or cobber that is :-). --Phil Wardle (talk) 04:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would change it myself,but I can't because of the article is locked. 203.206.9.192 (talk) 10:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source for the claim that it is "completely false"? JayKeaton (talk) 17:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why are you asking me for a source? It's the writing in the article that needs one. For example: "The relaxed attitude is mainly because there was no direct African slave trading." and this: "Australians, black or white, do not on the whole have the same sensitivity to the word as Americans" 203.206.9.192 (talk) 02:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey he's just saying you might want a reference, find a website or something that backs you up. You might think it's clear and obvious, but it needs some support. You can't just say it's BS if you think it is. I've personally no idea, but you have to argue and post supporting comments in order for your opinion to stand - pretty much wiki 101. The article is [was] written that way, and yes it may be biased, in that case you show why it is, you dont just ask for it's removal, give us some links, something to act on. :)

I also found this section rather at odds with my experiences of growing up and living in numerous parts of Australia. For example, "when referring to indigenous Australians, the casual terms Abo and the more derogatory boong or coon are used in its place" -- "abo" is not a "casual term" by any stretch of the imagination, indeed the wikipedia entry for abo correctly says it is a racial slur. "Nigger is sometimes used amongst working class Australians, when used in a casual sense between friends or work colleagues of both white and mixed race" come on now, this is ridiculous. Such a practice would be a quick way to cause offence with friends or get you the sack if you were stupid enough to do it with work colleagues. I note that no citations are provided for any of this; perhaps some are needed. This section sounds more like the personal opinions of whomever wrote it. 81.157.83.220 (talk) 20:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note someone has also put a comment at the bottom of this Talk page. So there are at least three people who've commented on here and who think the Australian section should be re-written. 81.157.83.220 (talk) 02:42, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any sources for that section, so if someone does rewrite it, he should find a source first. It looks like what's there is original research right now. I would not object to deleting the entire section until someone can find a reliable source, or at least tagging the section as original research. Kman543210 (talk) 02:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article hints at common useage not as a negative word; but it should cover that more and say it clearly. I live in Newark, NJ and I hear every day blacks call each other that with affection. (calling each other "my dog" also) "That nigger [is] my dog!" is a high compliment around here. WAS 4.250 (talk) 17:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The double standard and arbitrary punishment of alleged racism should be made more prominent in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, there is almost no mention of double standard with regard to use of the word, yet this has been an issue for a number of years, especially in the hip-hop music scene121.73.165.17 (talk) 01:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An unbiased neutral view is quite necessary. I suppose whites may call each other "their honky" but they don't tell blacks not to say it that I know of (although no one should use such remarks, I'm sure almost everyone has thought it, as it's impossible to escape that type of thing these days with it being said in songs and movies so much). Rightly so, the double-standard point should be mentioned, as it's of true importance. Whether it is slang for affection or a negative slur (between other races or against other races), it can't be said that it only means one thing nowadays. Matter of fact, it is used within similar races without bigotry. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 21:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Watch Blazing Saddles for examples of both "good" and "bad" usages. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You following me? Does something in World Series need to be changed again? (I'm kidding, relax.) I've seen the movie. I'm sure whoever is monopolizing this article won't add what they don't like though. Same with the Honky page, it's played out. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 17:44, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How in the world does the small mention of the word "Nigger" by Zed get written about but the entire "Dead Nigger Storage" usage from the Bonnie Situation scene doesn't? It seems that if one of them is going to get addressed it would be the latter, not the former. Raoulduke25 (talk) 15:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can add this, see what format at WP:Profanity. 98.227.192.222 (talk) 10:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because it's profanity. Wikipedia is no a place for "Dead Nigger Storage." 96.241.162.137 (talk) 23:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the United States section, America's top general in the First World War, John Pershing, was once given the nickname "Nigger Jack" because he had led entirely black units before that war and approved of them. His nickname was later changed to "Blackjack Pershing". 74.10.198.105 (talk) 23:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's mentioned at the end of the Names of places and things section. --Onorem♠Dil 00:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It was highlighted some time ago that the word Nigger was mostly used to refer to negroids. Indeed, as the article goes on to say it derives for the word negro.

This article would best begin by saying "Nigger is a derogatory term used to refer to dark-skinned people, mostly those with negroid features"

You may think the use of the word "negroid" is problematic and unscientific. However it's far less problematic than using Africa or color to designate who is a nigger (since Egyptians are darker skinned than most of the world, African and yet still not usually considered niggers).

Would a person with negroid features who is an albino be considered an albino nigger? Yes.

It's not the skin color per se, nor the continent of origin that designates who is a nigger. It's the features that would lead a modern forensic anthropologist or earlier scientist to classify a person as a Negro.

The word nigger is an offensive synonym for negro, the word negro describes certain identifiable characteristics in humans. You can't successfully define "nigger" without making direct reference to what is meant by a negro.

Negro need not be a valid scientific concept in order to be used in the definition of nigger, it is however an essential concept.

Speaking of scientific, there are 3 basic skull types anthropologists use to categorise people, they being Caucasian, Asiatic and Negroid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The word "nigger" was once commonly found in dictionaries as a non racist reference of the word ignorant to describe an ignorant person.

"Nigger is a derogatory term". This is a false opening statement. It is better written as "Nigger is a word that is deemed offensive in some cultures and a sign of affection in others."

In Britain the word "Nigger" is used often by blacks, but is seen as an excuse for people (black or white) to assault a white person should they use the word, or be rumoured to have used the word.

I myself have witnessed a group of 7 black male youths on a Sunday afternoon at White City tube station approaching young solo travelling white girls, one at a time, and shouting "You called me Nigger, you're a racist, bitch!". Needless to say I was rather shocked and dialled the emergency police number. But, clearly, the word "Nigger" is demonstrated to be a word that is culturally acceptable in the black community to attack whites with.

I don't see how anecdotes and personal opinions support re-writing the lead. Indeed, even if some black persons were using false accusations to attack whites, this fact would only support the claim: "Nigger" is a derogatory term. Phiwum (talk) 12:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Characterising a word before it is explained is very unscientific. It might not be a false opening statement, but the student is instantly railroaded into a predetermined insistence which only exists due to immense political pressure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:27, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think "nigger" is offensive by anyone in general but the creation of "nigga" by blacks to thwart Caucasians motives seems to be more of the affection version. Yet, it seems that whites don't really have a need to say it to blacks anyways since so many blacks say it among themselves already. It's almost self-deprecating. Nonetheless, such as Dave Chappelle and others, the use of white slurs such as "honky" are still used negatively towards whites. I don't know many, but there are some, whites who will call each other "white trash" or "cracker" among themselves as a term of affection or even negatively. However, it's still not acceptable by blacks even though it seems to be as common that they use it. I think this topic best fits under a section of "double standard" perhaps, as there are many different views on the topic (in all fairness). If you take "nigger" or "white trash" by it's original meaning of an ignorant, lazy, indigent, and/or uneducated person, then any negative word even "stupid" or "retarded" shouldn't ever be used technically. But at some point, in the context of using it in definition is appropriate, but as an attack is not. In time, people themselves have created such hype about a word that wasn't really considered as big of a deal as it is now, and used in common everyday speech. Over time, people have just become more sensitive to words, image and race. Just my thoughts on the matter, thanks! 2legit2quit2 (talk) 16:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC) 2legit2quit2 (talk) 16:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

User:Yilloslime removed this section per "WP:BOLDly removing section which adds nothing to understanding of the word. are we going to list every movie in which "nigger" is used by a white person? what's remarkable about these movies".

Usage by non-blacks in popular culture

The word was used in the 1992 film Reservoir Dogs by Mr. White (Harvey Keitel) while in the car. It was also later used in the 1994 film Pulp Fiction by Zed (Peter Greene), a racist serial killer who rapes Marsellus Wallace (Ving Rhames), when he is playing the controversial version of the counting rhyme "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" to choose which person to rape.

The word has been used twice by a white person at the start of the 2003 film Bad Boys 2, where there's a Ku Klux Klan rally, when he has a gun to Marcus' (Martin Lawrence) head. In the subtitles of the film in DVD, when the white man says the word, it is read as "Nigger", while when blacks use it in the film, it is read as "Nigga".

The word has been recently used in an episode of The Sopranos, by Anthony Soprano, Jr. (Robert Iler), against a black person who was on a cycle, who then gets beaten up.

On the episode of South Park "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson", Randy Marsh appears on Wheel of Fortune and is presented with a bonus round puzzle whose category is "People Who Annoy You" and solved letters are "N_GGERS." With five seconds to go he reluctantly guesses: "Niggers!" on live national television, shocking his family, friends and millions of viewers worldwide. The correct answer is actually naggers, and Randy loses.

I'm not totally convinced that it should go, but am too on-the-fence to stick it back in the article. It is (somewhat) interesting information, but is also incomplete and poorly written, as well as pretty unencyclopedic. Any thoughts? M.Nelson (talk) 05:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's valuable to include contemporary references in order to exemplify the word's evolution, and impact on society. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:30, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Nigger is a derogatory term used to refer to dark-skinned people . . ." is false and misleading, implying that any usage of the word is derogatory and racist, which is of course not true. There was a lot more of that throughout the article. I've edited the article to make it more neutral. Thom (talk) 15:00, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article never explains WHY nigger is offensive to people, which should be its main point.

I agree, I think the fact that the article emphasizes too much on the negative of the word towards blacks, is more racist than admitting that for years, according to Webster's Dictionary, it was a word to describe an ignorant and/or uneducated person which the black slaves were mostly at that time. People have called other races the "N word" in the context that it's someone who is foolish or as a term-of-endearment. At any rate, it's a sensitive subject nonetheless. Like with the guy mentioned in this article who got fired for using variations of the word or different meaning words that sounded like it but did not mean anything about blacks, perhaps reconsidering or adding more history on the word is warranted. Just my thoughts/advice. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 06:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He is mentioned as a proponent of Civil Rights. This does Johnson a terrible disservice, as he sacrificed his political career and possibly shortened his life due to his committment to Civil Rights legislation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.63.120 (talk) 05:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The following {{editsemiprotected}} request is rejected for failing to provide a sufficiently specific description of the desired change. It is left in place as a general edit request for an interested editor. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 23:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could someone please edit the Australia section of this page, in particular the following sections :

"it is now rarely used by urban whites in any context; when referring to indigenous Australians, the casual terms Abo and the more derogatory boong or coon are used in its place." This implies that it was once in use and that all references to Aboriginal people are of a racially degrogatory nature.

"Nigger is sometimes used amongst working class Australians, when used in a casual sense between friends or work colleagues of both white and mixed race. It is generally used in imitation of American slang e.g. "Wassup, my nigger." It should be emphasised that the word nigger has far less shock value in Australia than the US and is often used in a typical Australian ironic context, without meaning to, or indeed causing offence. Black, Aboriginal, or Polynesian people may use the term to greet each other. It would not be acceptable to use the term to a stranger or casual acquaintance." The text in the above section are the individual thoughts of the author, no supporting references are given.

However, nigger has seen common use in rural or semi-frontier districts. In this context, the usage was British colonial, that is, applying generically to dark-skinned people of any origin (cf. Rudyard Kipling). This has led to controversy, since Australian Aborigines have started to take the term strongly to heart, in both the pejorative and revisionist senses (see below under Names of places and things). Again, no supporting references to back up the authors belief that the term was in wide and frequent use or that any indigenious Australians use the term today.

I know Wikipedia is uncensored and everything. But, should this have a warning? Like "this article may cause offense to some people" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Munchman (talk • contribs) 11:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would say no because there are a lot of articles on wikipedia that may be offensive to some. The talk page above does state that this is a controversial topic and may be offensive to some. There are very explicit (nude) pictures in some articles on wikipedia that do not have any warnings. I don't believe there is any precedent for putting one on an article. I also should hope that the article is written well enough and in an intellectual manner as to not directly offend. Kman543210 (talk) 11:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Besides, the number of people who can read English well enough to read the article, but who don't know that the word is offensive, is almost certainly too small to worry about — especially as the article makes it clear that the word is indeed offensive. And if it's the article, rather than the word itself, that's causing offence, then the offended parties should get a better sense of what an encyclopedia is for. garik (talk) 12:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, you have to type it in/click on it to get here anyway, so you almost always know where you are heading. A dictionary isn't censored. SGGH ^speak! 13:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I typed "n word" and it redirected me here, so I got totally sneak-attacked. I know a dictionary isn't censored, but a dictionary has significantly more editorial filters than Wikipedia. 168.98.67.11 (talk) 21:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not censored. siℓℓy rabbit (talk) 23:56, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think this article should have any warning. If the article about Peter North (porn star), describing his "exceptionally large penis" and his ability to achieve and maintain an erection, and to ejaculate, does not require a warning, then this article does not.

John Paul Parks (talk) 17:53, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The statement in the article that the term "nigger" was commonly used in the United States prior to the Civil Rights era is wrong. The term was not used by sophisticated people in polite conversation. The most frequent terms used were negro and colored, with the older "darkey" being common during and prior to the Civil War.

John Paul Parks (talk) 17:53, 26 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand. Is usage by the polite and sophisticated the determinant of 'commonly used'? According to dictionary.com the term was in use at least since the 1800s. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nigger. 121.241.177.98 (talk) 23:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I proposed the following changes and suggest they also get included in the section on australia

There has been a stir in Australia in recent years over the naming of a stand in the 1960s at a stadium in Toowoomba as the "E.S. Nigger Brown Stand". Toowoomba's first international rugby player Edward Stanley Brown was of caucasian (Anlgo-Saxon) descent yet was known ironically by the nickname of "Nigger Brown" either because he had used a shoe polish brand named "Nigger Brown" or was of fair complexion or both. As in the United States some decades ago, the word had been used casually in Australia. Brown was happy with the nickname, and it is written on his tombstone. A growing consciousness in Australia, however, has led to the term being considered offensive.

Australian activist Stephen Hagan took the responsible local council to court over the use of the word, but lost at the district and state level, and the High Court ruled that the matter was beyond federal jurisdiction (The federal government cited the High Court ruling on a lack of federal jurisdiction as its legal justification for continued inaction). Mr Hagan campaigned further - going to the United Nations while facing bankruptcy and personal attacks over his campaign - and following discussion between the Queensland Sports' Minister Judy Spence and the Toowoomba Sports Ground Trust a decision was made in September 2008 to not use the nickname in a plaque to be erected to continue to commemorate E.S. Brown when the stand is demolished. (Mr Hagan also has tried changing other terms or names such as the Coon brand of cheese.)

IMO there is too much detail [Undue Weight] on this case for this article. The section should be summarised and a new article started about Edward Stanley Brown. Hippo43 (talk) 23:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Give me a week or so and I see what I can cook up. The problem might be that a similar argument ({{Off-topic}}) might be levelled against a short biography of E. S. Brown which then elaborates on the stadium issue. On the other hand, an article about the stadium issue alone could be considered as non-encyclopedic and in breach of WP:NOT#NEWS — rock • hard place. Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:29, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have now thought about this and I think there is no other place for this item. Neither E. S. Brown nor S. Hagan seem to warrant biographical articles, and the question of the stadium's name as an article seems not noteworthy enough. Furthermore, there have recently been a number of edits which pared down the prose of this section quite a bit, so I think it's no longer overwhelming the article. Note that WP:UNDUE deals with a different aspect of unbalanced writing. Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:53, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, its now a good example and not excessive in size ϢereSpielChequers 14:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

E.S. Brown doesn't warrant an article? If you say so, but just from the description above, I thought he'd satisfy the notability requirements. (I know nothing about him aside from the description above, so perhaps I'm just butt-wrong.) Phiwum (talk) 14:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The UK section needs a bit more work. For example, "these and other terms had become recognised as offensive racial slurs had been outlawed by stricter government legislation" doesn't make sense - and there is no "stricter government legislation" as described.

There's also too vague a timeline. The term was surely not derogatory in the 1930s when Agatha Christie published her story "Ten Little Niggers". My own sense is that it was not until the the 1950s and 1960s that the idea that it was was imported from the US – no doubt as mass immigration from the West Indies led to perceived competition for jobs between the native population and the new arrivals (similarly in the first section the idea that it became derogatory around 1800 is a remark that needs to be confined to the USA). Deipnosophista (talk) 11:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree. I remember being baffled as a young child in the early 1950s when told that the n-word was racist. To me then racist words were things like "wog" ( as in "the wogs start at Calais" ). And I can't believe that John Buchan was being derogatory in a Richard Hannay novel where the hero goes into a club with "a rather good nigger band". However I certainly would not use the word now. Cerddaf (talk) 13:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I edited "derogatory" to pejorative which is what the similar article Cracker_(pejorative) uses. They are synonyms in a way but I find pejorative to be a more descriptive and encyclopedia worthy word. Inseeisyou (talk) 07:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could someone make a section on this. I don't know enough about it, but that ought certainly be mentioned. I mean in america it was used to the irish just as much as it was for blacks

Interesting, but we would need sources for that. I remember Jimmy Rabbitte saying something like it in The Commitments - but to the bemusement of the rest of the band. ϢereSpielChequers 14:14, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think he said "the Irish are the blacks of Europe". Fainites ^barleyscribs 09:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it was a reference to Phil Lynott, who was both Irish and a Nignog —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.99.97 (talk) 11:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article states that the Hungarian word néger underwent a meaning change since the 1990's. It didn't. This word (néger) has nothing to do (and never had) with the derogatory term "nigger" which was (and sometimes is) used separatedly. These words may look similar but are not synonyms.

In contemporary Hungarian, "néger" simply refers to a black person, without any derogatory or racist meaning. On the contrary, the word "néger" is mostly unpreferred by local racists who use several other terms instead for black people. Note that Hungary had never been involved any kind of slavery and even had no colony, settlement or alike. This country neither had black minority nor it has significant black immigrants nowadays. A black (or African American) person appearing/living in local communities is still a rare thing. Thus no derogatory connotations have got assigned to the term "néger", therefore the unverified reference in the article shall be removed because it is deeply offensive to Hungarians.

The most recent controversy regarding the word "nigger" occurred when rapper Nas, expressed his intent to name his new album “Nigger”. He was attacked by many prominent African Americans, especially Reverend Jesse Jackson who said “The title using the ‘N’ word is morally offensive and socially distasteful. Nas has the right to degrade and denigrate in the name of free speech, but there is no honor in it.” Eventually, Nas changed the title but not before saying “[By using “nigger”] we’re taking power from the word,” and putting a picture of himself with an "N" whipped into his back on the cover. The irony is that Nas still uses “nigger” repeatedly in fourteen of the fifteen tracks on his album, however there was no uproar about the songs, only the title.

70.108.47.165 (talk) 00:52, 11 November 2008 (UTC)Molly Wallace[reply]

There doesn't appear to be an easy place in the article to mention that Dvorak's 'American' Quartet was originally the Nigger Quartet (H. H. Schonzeler, Dvorak. Marion Boyars Publishers, New York 1984.)Fleapit (talk) 04:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK no need to add it then. ϢereSpielChequers 09:06, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The word "nigger" was also once commonly found in dictionaries as a non racist reference of the word ignorant to describe an ignorant person.

originally the word nigger was used to describe an uneducated or ignorant person as someone today may call another person stupid or retarded. it happened to be that the slaves were black. in time, the word was associated to only blacks, but many will say that there are other "niggers" in other races. (it should be noted that while the "n word" is considered offensive towards blacks, such words for whites like 'honky' or 'cracker', are as equally offensive and should not be used either. in all fairness, this applies to both races.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.129.170.102 (talk)

Good point: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nigger (disadvantaged person) 2legit2quit2 (talk) 19:58, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cracker and honky don't offend white people. White people don't get all bent out of shape when called such things because its rubbish and they know it. Cracker and honky dont have as much of an impact that reflects on history as nigger does

Well, amen. That is true, that's a good point. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 10:50, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In a popular sketch on SNL, Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor exchange both "nigger" (Chase) and "honky" (Pryor) towards one another during a word-association interview. What I didn't see in this article is the (historical) mention of Redd Foxx, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor (with exception to one sentence), N.W.A. (Niggaz with Attitudes), etc. who re-popularized the usage (and used it often in public settings). Nowadays, it's common by comedians such as Eddie Griffin or rappers such as DMX (rapper). But at that time, it was still uncommon practice in "pop culture" (especially since some shows such as Sanford & Son had to be edited because Redd Foxx used the word so much during recording/taping.) These are just my additional thoughts/information on the subject that should be or could be added to the article. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 06:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You forgot or left out that "honky" led to "N-word" which led to "dead honky", Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 23:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No I didn't, the entire transcript isn't necessary. I was merely making the point about the racial slurs being used in general. If someone feels the need to add more (instead of deleting for a change) they can feel free to. 2legit2quit2 (talk) 17:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I scanned through the article and talk page and saw no reference of this, so if there is no dispute, I can add it: While Coe used Caucasian-related racial slurs such as 'redneck' and 'white trash' in his music, he also sings at least three songs with 'nigger' in the lyrics. "Cowboys & Niggers", "If That Ain't Country, I'll Kiss Your Ass" and "Nigger Fucker": [3]

05:01, 2 March 2009 (UTC) 3/1/09 "Cowboys & Niggers" is a song by Johnny Rebel, whose work is often mistaken for that of David Allan Coe.

They both sang it. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 06:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's interesting how even when positive content is added (ie. reference to the word Honky being used in pop culture) is "dumbed down" (rightly so since lack of attention makes it go away if in a negative manner) and other words such as Nigger is highly commented. Compare the articles of info that is kept and deleted. This is for many individuals in admin to pay attention to. It seems it is a "double standard" or "personal preference" that some will highly allow minor points to be made in some articles and not others. We can discuss further until a resolution is made, but to just cherry pick what we don't like or think is valid and keep what we think is appropriate is really not what Wiki approves us. Let's be honest with ourselves and mature about this type of concern. I hope catching people on it doesn't upset you, but it's apparent that truth is being diverted as a way to condone racism. Just my thoughts and suggestions, thanks! Have a good day... 2legit2quit2 (talk) 20:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honky

Agree. And it's ok to say Honky or Cracker in the media towards whites, but be hushed about the "N" word. Wrong is wrong. What about the "H" and "C" and "W" words? Perhaps a section (statement) can be made about this within the article regarding double-standard racial slurs. As that commercial goes about using the word "gay", 'knock it off', it all should stop. More references to support this idealogy later. Maybe a seperate article can be created. I know the matter won't change anything here, but a little bit of awareness can help in the long run. On the same subject, it seems not just with these words but others, the meanings have become "perverted" and "twisted" into offensive meanings, that didn't used to exist. It's a shame. FYI only, thanks. 69.129.170.102 (talk) 10:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please add the following to "use in popular culture":

HAiR, The American Tribal Love-Rock Musical, contained a song entitled "Three-Five-Zero-Zero," which used the chorus, "Prisoners in Niggertown/It's a dirty little war/three-five-zero-zero". The song and the musical were critical of the Vietnam War.

This section makes a lot of claims but only have two (2) references. Not good. Fix it please. Birfday (talk) 00:27, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to say it, but why not do this yourself? Parrot of Doom (talk) 11:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for posting this here, wasnt sure where else to put it. In the 1980s I have a vauge memory of seeing a movie where the plot focused around a drug dealer on trial for shooting a police officer. The drug dealer had a tape recroder playing rap music and instead of hitting stop when the cop walked up he hit record. The tape recorder then recorded the cop saying "Goodbye Ni**er!!" and opening fire. The entire movie was about some lawyer trying to get this tape and prove the drug dealer had acted in self defense. I think in one scene he finds it and it gets burned by the bad guys. Does anyone recall the name of this film? Its been 22 years at least but I'd love to see it again. -OberRanks (talk) 23:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a term I have heard used in the past, by Irish people in England, in describing themselves. The reference under United Kingdom to Elvis Costello's lyrics almost certainly refers to the British Army in Northern Ireland. See for example the Wikipedia entry for 'Murder Mile'. Oliver's Army established a grim reputation in Ireland some time ago. Reference in the song to 'a checkpoint Charlie' is probably a derogatory reference to a soldier, rather than to Checkpoint Charlie, which wasn't, to my knowledge, manned by British forces. Zipzoodle (talk) 22:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Senator Byrd used this phrase in an interview with public television last year. -24.98.65.137 (talk) 03:03, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is the nonsense about "East Germany" in the context of "Oliver's Army" and "white niggers"? The song is about the North of Ireland. Elvis Costello says so himself.

There is no mention of the word's usage in the novel Heart of Darkness or the Kentucky state anthem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.109.113 (talk) 06:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That would be.. trivial. Also, the word used in Kentucky's state song was "darkies", but that's been changed to "people".  Aaron  ►  04:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

The following needs a minor edit under Usage in popular culture: "Michael Richards used the word nigger against a heckler during his stand-up comedy routine)[24] Dog the Bounty Hunter used the word in reference to his son's girlfriend.[25]"

It should read: "Michael Richards used the word nigger against a heckler during his stand-up comedy routine.[24] Dog the Bounty Hunter used the word in reference to his son's girlfriend.[25]"

Basically remove ) with . (Of course if necessary, further explanations of these two incidents can be added as well to explain the circumstances. But not required.) Thank you! 69.129.170.102 (talk) 13:17, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thanks for pointing that out ϢereSpielChequers 13:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As a result of "Dog", his show was cancelled but later renewed. If it's of importance to the current already vague statement. Both received national attention. Appreciate it! 63.131.4.149 (talk) 10:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Dog the Bounty Hunter used the word in reference to his son's girlfriend.[25]" This sentence is sort of generic. I realize "Dog" is popular, or otherwise this wouldn't be worth mentioning (allot of people use the word in songs, movies, shows, in private, etc.), but adding "which became public and caused Dog to lose his show temporarily", to the end of the sentence, would make more sense and give it more stability. Let me know your thoughts, or just kindly make the change...thanks! 69.129.170.102 (talk) 23:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why there is an article for this word, but not for many others. --64.180.0.32 (talk) 01:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are articles for many other terms. --Ezeu (talk) 01:12, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Quentin Tarantino's film, Pulp Fiction, there are uses of the word by both black and white characters. In one instance, Tarantino, playing the character Jimmie, asks a bloodied Samuel L. Jackson and John Travolta if they saw a sign on the outside of his house that said 'Dead Nigger Storage' because they had brought a dead black man to his house in their car. He sardonically reminds the hitmen that they did not see such a sign because storing dead niggers was not his business.

I believe it is also worthy of mention that "nigger" is also used in reference to white characters Butch and Vincent Vega (and Jimmy, indirectly) by Marcellus Wallace.

206.57.95.217 01:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

-Hey, Sweet!

-Whassup, bro?

-It's timee for Smoke. The Johnson brothers will take that fat ass fool!

-Yeah, my nigga, you are my running dog!

(part of conversations between Sweet and Carl Johnson, two very known niggaz, from the GTA San Andreas missions "End Of The Line" and "The Green Sabre")

Are there any style policies or guidelines regarding the use of this word in Wikipedia articles in general? I attempted to euphemize a reference to this word in a quotation from Muhammad Ali, in the Conscientious objector article, but I was reverted. I felt (and still feel) that words generally considered to be offensive (such as this word) should not be used in Wikipedia articles without a good reason, but I looked in WP:MOS just now and couldn't find anything on this subject. Any thoughts? Richwales (talk) 19:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You shouldn't censor/euphemise quotes. –xeno ^talk 19:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The relevant guidelines are WP:PROFANE and WP:NOT#CENSORED. The latter says that "In particular, when a cited quotation contains words that may be offensive, it should not be censored" (and I agree). I think the article needs to make it clearer why the quote is relevant though. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk • Contribs)} 19:51, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe everything than anyone considers offensive for any reason should be removed from wikipedia. Why not remove this entire article. What on earth would make you corrupt a quotation? Fixentries (talk) 16:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Euphemizing it, as you say, only serves to increase the hateful power it can convey. As stated above, WP is not censored but even if it were, the larger issue would be that you're talking about a quote. Changing the text would make it no longer a quote - "In particular, when a cited quotation contains words that may be offensive, it should not be censored." (WP:NOT) ~ Amory (talk) 17:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am proposing that Nigga be merged with Nigger under a new category in the article. Nigga is currently a Start-class article and merging its information might bring this article up a grade letter. However I am concerned that this merging might make the article too long. (It looks too long as it is) Feel free to discuss your opinions and thoughts. JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 16:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well to begin with, you should probably at least notify editors of that article by commenting on its talk page. Secondly, this article we better be improved by removing many of the tedious pop-culture references and making it tighter, rather than adding more content from what is currently a short but appropriate sub-article. I don't think it would make this article any better, only longer. Rockpocket 17:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

SECOND PARAGRAPH READS: The word nigger has appeared in many films (such as in Blazing Saddles, which used the term to ridicule racism), television shows and songs. The word was also used in all stage productions of the musical Show Boat from 1927 until 1946. It is part of the original lyric to the famous song Ol' Man River, as well as of Cotton Blossom, the show's opening chorus. It was not used in any of the film versions of the show, but it was included in the 1988 EMI recording of the complete original score, featuring its original lyrics, orchestrations, and vocal arrangements. Musical theatre historian Miles Kreuger and conductor John McGlinn have both argued that the word was not intended as an insult, but rather as a blunt illustration of how whites at that time perceived blacks.

Aside of Blazing Saddles (this isn't the only example/movie it's used in), I recommend using additional references such as:

"The word nigger has appeared in many films such as Blazing Saddles (which used the term to ridicule racism), Mississippi Burning [4] and Fried Green Tomatoes (film)[5][6], television shows (see below) and songs (see below)....

Songs and Television shows are already included in this section of the article.

69.129.170.102 (talk) 21:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm removing

The reason for the lack of penalties in the New York resolution is that any attempt to impose a penalty for pure speech, not accompanied by any clear or present danger, would violate the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, to which the States have been subject since the decision in Gitlow v. New York. Merely because a group of persons finds a particular word or expression offensive does not provide the government with any authority to ban it. For example, a Vietnam-era era draft protestor was held, in the case of Cohen v. California, to have a constitutional right to wear a jacket into the Los Angeles County Courthouse that bore the words "fuck the draft."

which is not only incoherant abt the legal situation, nor only too broad for this article, but is partly and perhaps totally OR. The clear and present danger logic may or may not have motivated individual members of the body, or have been discussed in their public deliberations, or be stated in the resolution; the article should make it clear how one knows whether it was the case here. Since the author clearly does not understand the context in which the phrase is applicable, it would be reckless to assume they are right -- and especially so since facts about the intent of legislative bodies is far less likely to become established knowledge than it is to become the subject of partisan opinions that "the intent is obvious on its face to anyone who is objective [like me]."
Interested readers should consult the article on the phrase, but here's a spoiler: "clear and present danger" does not suffice for restricting speech; e.g. a clear and present danger of an ugly bout of competitive racial slander is not the kind of danger that the rule was, and remains, about.
--Jerzy•t 02:22, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How ironically this is discussed: under UK, attributed to John Lennon. I'm downgrading the ref to him there, reflecting the fact that its easily documented UK significance (her interview in a UK women's mag) is in 1969 via Yoko, not him, and that its easily documented US significance far outweighs that.
Under US, i'm adding his role in it, which so far is in its US context (outside of his pic apparently appearing -- perhaps on the cover? -- in the UK women's mag). As far as our article "Woman Is the Nigger of the World" knows, his role with it is that (when they both were living in the US), the record was released (and perhaps Apple involvement is evidence of otherwise unmentioned UK release) and included in the album pointedly titled Some Time in New York City, eliciting problems with US broadcasters, and defense/support by US political and cultural figures.
Did i say "ironically"? Yes, i said ironically. (And clearly i should stick to article pages when Craig Ferguson is on, since i can resist the influence there.) Woman says "Woman is the nigger of the world", in Britain, and 3 years later her husband says it in the US, and finally people notice. Notice anything about the status of women? Other side of the ocean may also be an enlightening consideration.
--Jerzy•t 04:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]