Jump to content

Talk:Electronic money

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


what about a table?

[edit]

something like that:

pegged with an other currency decentralised fixed total amount requires trust in someone
bitcoin no yes yes no
paypal yes, national currencies (mainly USD) no no yes
pecunix yes, physical gold no as much as gold itself yes
Ripple yes, any currency yes no no (P2P trust)
webmoney

-- Grondilu (talk) 14:34, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think this kind of table has merit. Only caveats: WP:Verifiability for all cell contents and an explanation of the column headings. --Ds13 (talk) 14:40, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. perhaps not the trust column, but the rest of it looks good. -- Aunva6talk - contribs 08:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Better pretty list, with little describes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.94.94.195 (talk) 03:58, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Grondilu, Aunva6, and Ds13: I agree too. A table listing the key differences of Electronic money would improve the article. The column headings could be linked to sections explaining that aspect. Jonpatterns (talk) 13:36, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A good table would be very useful, but I'm opposed to adding one unless it relies primarily on a table (or tables) from a reliable source (or sources). I'm basing that on having seen what happened with a simple table in cryptocurrency; it grew more complex, with columns of data that don't have clear answers, let alone answers that fit into a small space, and is now a lot of apples-to-oranges comparisons and dubious information cobbled together from many different sources. I've also seen feature tables have columns added to present one listing in a more favorable light (e.g., a column with a feature that only one listing offers, such as proof-of-stake in cryptocurrency's table, added solely for Peercoin), while relying on a source like Consumer Reports or PC Magazine for a table means that independent source chose the criteria being compared. Agyle (talk) 17:33, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I guess the trick is in designing the table - ensuring neutrality and meaningfulness. Apples need to be compared to apples and the oranges could go in a 'other notable features' column. Jonpatterns (talk) 18:56, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why it is so informative?

[edit]

Could somebody describe me why it is so informative? There are three pretty strokes. Let compare with Money article... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.94.94.55 (talk) 14:58, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

RIP grammar... I have no idea what you are saying. -- Aunva6talk - contribs 08:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Difference between Electronic money and Digital currency

[edit]

To me the term Digital currency would mean something similar to 'Electronic money'. What are the differences? I also note that many sources use Digital currency to mean Cryptocurrency - but this seems erroneous to me. Incidentally there is a discussion about merging Digital currency and Cryptocurrency in some way. Jonpatterns (talk) 13:20, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My impression is that e-money is simply an older term for the same thing, though I'm not sure of that. "Electronic" was a popular prefix in the 80s and 90s (e.g., e-mail), and while "digital" became more a more popular prefix in the 2000s. (Both were in use many decades earlier, and both are still used, I'm just talking about the surge of popularity in naming new things). I think I only see "electronic money" or "e-money" used by governments, which are less apt to change terminology based on fashion, due to legislation from years ago that established the terminology (e.g., the EU, or Lebanon's 2000-era law).
Equating digital currency and cryptocurrency is indeed erroneous...perhaps all cryptocurrencies are digital currencies (unless someone made a pen & paper one to be contrarian), but the reverse isn't true.
Agyle (talk) 17:50, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agyle, I fully agree with your above points.--Wuerzele (talk) 18:17, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe there is a case for merging Electronic money and Digital currency? I notice the redirects: Digital money -> Electronic money, and Electronic currency -> Digital currency. There may not be a need for separate article for electronic/digital Money and Currency Jonpatterns (talk) 18:56, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Could be, though I want to emphasize my uncertainty on the issue; I may be overlooking a legitimate distinction. Unfortunately, this article is so reprehensibly awful it's of zero use ("different realities"??). A quick googling turns up this McAfee paper that discusses the distinctions according to the European Central Bank (see page 4), and Investopedia has a definition of e-money that's seems consistent with the ECB's usage. Not sure that either is a reliable source, but if the ECBs usage is generally accepted, then it sounds like there is some difference. Agyle (talk) 19:30, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the links, I won't suggest a merge before doing more research, or someone more informed can comment. Jonpatterns (talk) 20:31, 12 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm including some other sources. I think they could form the basis for a coherent definition in the article's lede. The definition of electronic money and digital currency both vary; in some views, they're synonymous, in others they're distinct.

There seem to be five approaches:

  • (1): electronic money and digital currency are synonyms with identical meanings: a digital (or electronic, meaning non-physical) representation of money (or medium of exchange), including both fiat- and non-fiat currencies (or money).
  • (2): same as (1), but the synonyms exclude fiat currencies.
  • (3): same as (1), but the synonyms exclude non-fiat currencies.
  • (4): similar to (1), but digital currency excludes fiat currencies.
  • (5): similar to (1), but digital currency excludes fiat currencies, and electronic money excludes non-fiat currencies.

Only one source, [Ping 2004], discusses multiple definitions, noting the two meanings (2) and (4), although it contrasts "electronic money" and "electronic cash" for (4) (I'm inferring "digital currency" and other names in the list with "cash" and "currency" would be grouped with electronic cash in that distinction). It's ten years old but is especially precise, and meticulous in its citations. The US Postal Service is an examples of (1). [Dashore 2011] is an example of (2). The IRS is an example of (3). [Flitter 2013] and [Shostak] are examples of (4). Brazil's Central bank is an example of (5). All of this involves a bit of inference, rather than being completely explicit, and I'm using fiat/non-fiat currency as a sort of shorthand, which isn't used in the sources.

  • "Some people consider that electronic money, electronic cash, digital cash, digital currency and cyber-currency are synonyms for an electronic medium of exchange. Another standpoint differentiates electronic money from electronic cash; `electronic money' includes not only electronic cash, but also but also the immense torrents of digital funds that zip through international and national payment networks (such as SWIFT and CHIPS). In 1996, the Bank of International Settlement (BIS) defined electronic money as `stored value' or `prepaid' products in which a record of the funds or`value' available to a consumer is stored on an electronic device in the consumer's possession. Although the definition of electronic money varies, in summary electronic money has the following common characteristics, which greatly attract money launderers and facilitate money laundering activity. First, bulk in electronic money can be ignored. One smart card or computer can store uncountable electronic money. This characteristic is largely different from traditional currency. A suitcase filled with $1m worth of $20 bills weighs more than 100 lbs. Secondly, electronic money is easy to transfer quickly. With the help of wire transfer or the internet, electronic money can be conveyed to every corner in the world in a split second. Thirdly, electronic money is much more anonymous than traditional currency. Traditional money has numbers which can be tailed and face-to-face transactions also influence the anonymity of traditional money. In the case of electronic money, the adoption of encryption techniques and the facility of remote transfer enormously increase the anonymity of electronic money. The immateriality, anonymity and high speed of electronic money not only offer great convenience to money launderers, but also cause much trouble to existing preventive and investigative measures in the fight against money laundering."
– Ping, He (2004). "New trends in money laundering - from the real world to cyberspace". Journal of Money Laundering Control. 8 (1): 48–55. doi:10.1108/13685200510621253. ISSN 1368-5201.
  • "Digital currency refers to any exchange of money that takes place electronically through a secured network. There are four primary types of electronic money instruments: electronic fund transfers, payment cards, Internet payments, and mobile payments. [Footnote:] E-money, electronic cash, electronic currency, digital money, digital cash, digital currency and cyber currency are other terms used to express the same concept."
– "Digital Currency: Opportunities for the Postal Service" (Document). U.S. Postal Service Office of Inspector General. 2011-10-03. p. 2. {{cite document}}: Unknown parameter |format= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |issue= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |url= ignored (help)
  • "Electronic money (also known as e-money, electronic cash, electronic currency, digital money, digital cash or digital currency) refers to money or scrip which is exchanged only electronically."
– Dashore, Pankaj; Jain, Suresh (2011). "Fuzzy Metagraph and Hierarchical Modeling" (PDF). International Journal on Computer Science & Engineering. 3 (1): 435–439. ISSN 0975-3397.
  • "Digital cash (also known as e-money, electronic cash, or digital currency) is just like real cash, except it’s not tangible. It’s money, or a money substitute, such as script, that is exchanged only electronically. Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT), direct deposit, PayPal and WebMoney are all examples of electronic money. These digital currencies offer irrevocable online payments, easy online access, and most importantly: identity protection."
– "Cash Intensive Businesses Audit Techniques Guide" (Document). U.S. Internal Revenue Service. {{cite document}}: Unknown parameter |chapter= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |format= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |url= ignored (help)
  • "Digital currency is electronic money that can be passed between individuals without the use of the traditional banking or money transfer system."
– Flitter, Emily; Wolf, Brett (2013-05-31). "Digital currency firms rush to adopt anti-money laundering rules". Reuters.
  • "It would appear that deregulated financial markets create various forms of new money. Notwithstanding, various forms of electronic money, or e-money, like digital currency, are effectively claims against banks. They don’t have a ‘life of their own.’"
– Shostak, Frank (2000). "The mystery of the money supply definition" (PDF). The Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics. 3 (4): 69–76. doi:10.1007/s12113-000-1027-z. ISSN 1098-3708.
  • "The [Central Bank of Brazil] points out that digital currencies should not be confused with electronic money, as defined by Brazilian legislation. Unlike digital currencies, electronic money is governed by various normative acts and it allows the users to make transactions denominated in domestic currency."
– Hajdarbegovic, Nermin (2014-02-20). "Brazilian central bank outlines digital currency risks". CoinDesk.


Perhaps too ambiguous on the distinction between EM and DC, but possibly still useful:

  • "With the introduction of digital currency, in the mid-1990s, almost a century of US government surveillance and control over financial payments came to an abrupt end. For the first time in history, electronic money could be instantly transferred anywhere in the world, without restriction. Perhaps more importantly, money, wealth, and precious metals could be stored, transferred, or instantly paid across any international border without requiring identifying information on the sender or receiver."
– Mullan, Philip (31 January 2014). The Digital Currency Challenge: Shaping Online Payment Systems Through U.S. Financial Regulations. Palgrave Macmillan. p. 2. ISBN 978-1-137-38255-9.
  • "Despite the hoopla, Bitcoin is still a niche digital currency." "Bitcoin is a form of electronic money that is not controlled by a person or institution."
– Gustke, Constance (2013-07-03). "Does digital currency have staying power?". BBC.
  • "Digital currency is electronic money that can be passed between parties without traditional banking or money transfer systems."
– Freifeld, Karen (2013-08-12). "N.Y. regulator considers issuing virtual currency guidelines". Reuters.
  • "[Bitcoin] is an open source (its controlling computer code is open to public view), peer to peer (transactions do not require a third-party intermediary such as PayPal or Visa), digital currency (being electronic with no physical manifestation)."
– "Bitcoin: Questions, Answers, and Analysis of Legal Issues" (Document). Congressional Research Service. 2013-12-20. {{cite document}}: Unknown parameter |format= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |issue= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |url= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |work= ignored (help)
  • "Digital currency does not involve any physically tangible representation and is so different from its existing counterparts (such as cash, checks, and credit cards) that consumer expectations regarding electronic money should be allowed to develop free from old formats."
– Gladstone, Julia Alpert (1996). "Essay – Exploring the Role of Digital Currency in the Retail Payments System". New England Law Review. Vol. 31. p. 1193.
  • "What is it? Electronic money (also variously labelled digital currency, computer money, or e-cash) presently comes in two basic forms, smart cards and network money."
– Cohen, Benjamin J. (2001). "Electronic money: new day or false dawn?". Review of International Political Economy. 8 (2): 197–225. doi:10.1080/09692290010033376. ISSN 0969-2290.

Agyle (talk) 10:21, 13 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Agyle and Jonpatterns why dont you work the above sources into the article? As it is, the "article is so reprehensibly awful it's of zero use", exactly, but viewed hundreds of times per day. And Jon why wait with the merger proposal ? Nobody more informed did comment in the last 2 months. The comments will come if you propose! --Wuerzele (talk) 18:17, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I need to go through the sources see what is the common and academic meanings of Electronic money, Electronic currency, Digital money and Digital currency. All depends on what time I have available. I will not propose a merger before doing. I've added the multiple issues banner, the page gets roughly 450 hits a day, and the Digital currency roughly 300-800. Jonpatterns (talk) 20:11, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
https://tools.wmflabs.org/popularpages/graph.php?title=Electronic+money&start=Apr13&end=Apr14
https://tools.wmflabs.org/popularpages/graph.php?title=Digital+currency&start=Apr13&end=Apr14

What to do about redirect "E-cash "?

[edit]

At the moment, E-cash is a redirect to the now obsolete section Electronic money#Off-line 'anonymous' electronic money. What to do about it? Is there a current section to suitably replace it? Should the redirect go to the article as a whole? Changed to another article, maybe related to Prepayment? Or be deleted at all...? --KnightMove (talk) 10:05, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Electronic_money&oldid=1196695739"