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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 16:34, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Helen Mary Wilkes

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Helen Mary Wilkes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable person. A loose necktie (talk) 10:53, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 11:11, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment and leaning keep, still thinking. This is a difficult one, because ProQuest provides four articles with passing mentions and quotes, all pointing out that she has done things to sailing. Quoting from here:"Helen Mary Wilkes, IODA President of Honour, has been awarded the gold medal of World Sailing following thirty four years of service, most recently as vice-chair of the WS Classes Committee. She is only the fifth woman to receive this medal since its creation in 1990." I thought would give her a pass at WP:ANYBIO, but I cannot establish that the award she got it significant or well known. So I fund myself unable to make a policy-based argument here, and yet she still seems notable. Her presence in the encyclopedia seems a net positive. Is this one of those rare situations where I should say keep because WP:IAR and WP:5P5...I'm reluctant to say that...maybe I will. I'll wait for now. I would like to argue to keep. I'm keen to see what others say and will follow the arguments made and may update this. CT55555 (talk) 11:57, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep in mind we are talking about someone whose claim to fame is that she was an administrator for a local yacht club. The award she may have received was probably one given by the club to one of its members, and therefore doesn't represent any real competition (which is why it is not notable-- it probably exists, it just doesn't matter). If we are going to claim IAR, maybe it should be for someone with greater notability than this person. A loose necktie (talk) 13:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think her greatest claim to fame is getting the President of Honour award from World Sailing, which is an international organisation based in a different country.
Presumably IAR is going to be quoted at borderline cases, if it was for slam dunk massively famous people, GNG would apply. That said, I'm still uncertain, still thinking. I"m happy to see some article improvement occurring. Maybe that will help give me clarity. CT55555 (talk) 15:19, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
daffodilocean has contributed a link to the Sail-World magazine article with detail of the citation for the President's Development Award.
Have added a link to the Optimist World Championship page showing the legacy of her work, a world championship with as many nations participating at Under-16 level as at Junior Wimbledon tennis. Robertowilkes (talk) 07:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:14, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, the award she won is not notable (there is no Wikipedia article), and last time I checked, having a "long successful career" was not a notability criterion. If you want to argue "keep" it would be great if you could base that argument on something substantive and policy-related, yes? A loose necktie (talk)
  • Weak keep (I commented above), based on WP:ANYBIO criteria 2 The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field. I think she has done so in sailing. I say weak because the note to that quote notes that usually there is in depth writing and for this subject there is not, but I still think she meets the criteria. But there is enough pieces of writing to create an article. CT55555 (talk) 15:12, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 11:31, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. ANYBIO is for extremely exceptional honors, it does not encompass internal awards that aren't even predictive of SIGCOV in the relevant NSPORT subguideline. Two of the sources cited above announcing her award are in fact non-independent: ISAF is the awarding organization, and she is an IODA President of Honour, so neither of those can contribute to GNG. The Afloat does appear independent, but is only one source. SIGCOV outside of her receipt of the award is necessary for BLP1E and GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 22:52, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I think you have mistakenly understood that I meant criterion 1 of ANYBIO, but it was criterion 2 that I mentioned. CT55555 (talk) 18:54, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, in that case I think the important bit is the requirement the impact be widely recognized and enduring. JoelleJay (talk) 21:37, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand and respect the point that you are making. It's not the clearest situation, which is why I said "weak". But I stand by my assertion. I see today that User:Cielquiparle did some work on the article, which is great, and I think makes clearer why I think she has indeed made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field. I'm trying to be a bit more WP:COAL so I'll try to avoid attempting to rebut any disagreement and hopefully let my analysis stand up for itself, even if you still disagree. CT55555 (talk) 18:58, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It is very difficult to accurately assess importance and wide recognition when plaudits are sourced to award announcements from non-independent orgs, as they will of course always hype up an awardee's exceptionalism. That's why it's critical to find truly independent coverage spanning several years. JoelleJay (talk) 23:48, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep based on extensive revisions by all to overcome COI issues and clarify lasting international impact of Helen Mary Wilkes’s work. Just enough reliable independent coverage satisfying WP:BASIC including Afloat magazine (emphasis her role in Optimist class, in-depth in 2017, mentioned in 2014 article), plus Providence Journal (focus on her work in women’s match racing). Recipient of Gold Medal from World Sailing governing body recognizing her work with the International Optimist Dinghy Association (IODA) (body of industry coverage makes it clear that success within this field is far from assured or “easy”); she is also mentioned in The Irish Times (1995, 1996) and Afloat magazine for helping Ireland punch above its weight in sailing. Additional mentions over the years help to validate wider recognition of the impact she has had – e.g. Carrickfergus Times (Northern Ireland); Royal Cork Yacht Club (“Helen Mary Wilkes, an absolute legend of Optimist racing”); St. Thomas International Opti Regatta (USVI); Sailing World (US); The Winner’s Guide to Optimist Sailing (thanked by Gary Jobson); Laura Rolandi Award of the Cofradía Europea de Vela (Spain/Europe). Trophy for Top Girl at Optimist World Championship was renamed after her in 2017. Cielquiparle (talk) 18:41, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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