Commons:Deletion requests/Professional wrestling magazines

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  • Add {{delete|reason=Fill in reason for deletion here!|subpage=Professional wrestling magazines|year=2024|month=December|day=15}} to the description page of each file.
  • Notify the uploader(s) with {{subst:idw||Professional wrestling magazines|plural}} ~~~~
  • Add {{Commons:Deletion requests/Professional wrestling magazines}} at the end of today's log.
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Professional wrestling magazines

[edit]

Screengrabs of photos from professional wrestling magazines, mostly from Internet Archive, have been a problem since they started appearing on the site five years ago. The half-assed, piecemeal approach of single-file DRs has not helped. If anything, it's perhaps made the problem worse. Users see content remaining on the site and then proceed to upload further content in the same vein, with their own peculiar interpretations of copyright law as it concerns the lack of a copyright notice.

The bulk of this request focuses on the so-called "Apter mags", the family of magazines published under the corporate names G.C. London and T.V. Sports. Most if not all of their magazines published between summer 1973 and late 1977 are in the public domain due to the lack of a copyright notice. However, this content comes from later issues. The criteria justifying {{PD-US-no notice}} ≠ the criteria justifying {{PD-US-1978-89}}, yet most of these files appear to claim PD based solely on the lack of a copyright notice without acknowledgement of extenuating circumstances. I initiated a similar DR last year. The closing admin provided the following:

I found the following copyright registrations in the copyright.gov database:

  1. V2833P041 for GC London Publishing, which covers the following titles:
    1. Inside wrestling
    2. Victory sports series
    3. World boxing
    4. Wrestling superstars
    5. The Wrestler
  2. V2833P043 for TV Sports Inc / GC London Publishing
    1. KO magazine
    2. Pro wrestling
Searching the database myself, it showed that the above-listed registrations were filed and recorded in 1992, so these copyrights would be valid.

Published in the "Apter mags" with a claim of no copyright notice. Based on what I found at Internet Archive and other places online, these magazines contained copyright notices through the May 1973 cover date. The earliest issue I found without a copyright notice bore an August 1973 cover date.

Published in Wrestling Revue. This magazine was published in Canada, so {{PD-US-no notice}} simply does not apply. While I didn't spend a whole lot of time on the matter, I couldn't find anything in Canadian copyright law pertaining to material falling into the public domain due to lack of a copyright notice.

UPDATE: I had a little time so I investigated further. Wrestling Revue was published in Canada for a number of years, bookended by periods where it was published in the U.S. Most issues do contain a valid copyright notice but some do not. There appears to be no consistent pattern to it, unlike the Apter mags. The Canadian publisher listed a Montreal address and many of the above photos center on the pro wrestling scene at the time in Quebec. Regardless, COM:PCP also applies here, as the uploader(s) and source(s) are pretty much the same as those referred to below, and just as unverifiable unless the specific issue is hosted on Internet Archive.

I didn't have time to dig deeper and had sketchy Internet access last evening, so I had to come back to this. The coverage of this magazine on Internet Archive is scattershot at best. The 1971 issues found there, not including the one referenced in the above list, were published in the U.S. and bear valid copyright notices. The January 1973 issue was published in the U.S. with a defective copyright notice ("All rights reserved by Champion Sports Publishing Corp. 1972"). The earliest issue published in Canada bore a May 1973 cover date. This continued to be the case until 1982, when it was again published in the U.S. by many of the same individuals previously involved with Champion Sports Publishing.

Published in Wrestling All Stars, which very clearly shows a copyright notice at the given source.

Published in GLOW, which very clearly shows a copyright notice at the given source.

Published in Championship Wrestling, which very clearly shows a copyright notice at the given source.

Published in The Ring's Wrestling Magazine, which very clearly shows a copyright notice at the given source.

Published in Wrestling Guide. COM:PCP applies, as the numerous eBay sources this uploader scrounged from are pretty much unverifiable at this point (I tried the Wayback Machine). I couldn't find this particular issue online apart from the cover. Other issues I've found online do include a copyright notice.

Published in Wrestling Sports Stars. COM:PCP also applies for the same reason, the numerous eBay sources this uploader scrounged from are pretty much unverifiable at this point (I tried the Wayback Machine). I couldn't find this particular issue online. The 1973 issue I found on Internet Archive and the 1974 issue I personally own both contain a copyright notice.

Addition to the original nomination, which I discovered while adding the Ellis photo to his Wikipedia article. Published in Wrestling Confidential. This issue is on Internet Archive and does contain a copyright notice. The only other file from this magazine I found on Commons was from 1987. That issue did not contain a copyright notice.
--RadioKAOS (talk) 08:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello there,
Some of these files were uploaded by myself. I did so on the basis that I believed they were in the public domain (under Template:PD-US-1978-89) because, after careful examination, the magazine the images appeared in did not have any correct copyright notice and I was not aware that their copyright was renewed at any point. I was careful not to upload from magazines which did contain valid copyright notices, such as GLOW magazine or from publishers such as JEMS, Inc.
RadioKaos has pointed out that it may be the case that G.C. London/T.V. Sports did renew their copyright on 23 October 1992, which I was previously unaware of.
Can I ask for a clarification? Does that October 1992 renewal retroactively cover their entire catalogue? Or does it only cover images from 5 years previously, ie 23 October 1987?
Template:PD-US-1978-89 states "its copyright was not subsequently registered with the U.S. Copyright Office within 5 years."
Surely this would mean that images published between 1978 and 23 October 1987 were not registered within 5 years, and thus those images are still valid for Template:PD-US-1978-89. If this is the case, I would ask that images published between 1978 and 23 October 1987 be retained. CeltBrowne (talk) 11:40, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@CeltBrowne: A copyright expert will have to comment. From what I can tell, the registration requirement was within five years following the effective date of the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, which was March 1, 1989. Also, it wouldn't cover their entire catalog. The Copyright Act of 1976 took effect on January 1, 1978 and specified that any published works lacking a copyright notice to that point were PD.RadioKAOS (talk) 12:00, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RadioKAOS As per Copyright Office's Circular 3 regarding Copyright Notice:

"An omission or mistake in using a copyright notice may not have invalidated the copyright to works published between January 1, 1978 and March 1, 1989, if... The work was registered before or within five years after the publication without notice and a reasonable effort was made to add notice to all copies or phonorecords distributed in the United States after the omission was discovered"

This verbiage seems pretty clear that the registration should have been made whithin 5 years of the publication and not the effective date of the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988. Pfcab (talk) 14:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Office's Circular 3 regarding Copyright Notice Pfcab (talk) 14:06, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for that clarification. It seemed highly unlikely to me that an image published in 1980 and in the public domain could be taken back out of the public domain an entire 12 years later.
So to reinitiate, based on that information, I believe that all images published by GC London/TV Sports without a copyright notice before 23 October 1987 should be retained. CeltBrowne (talk) 20:59, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, if what you're saying does prove to be the case, how can a publication date be determined in edge cases? I know at least in the case of the Apter mags, they mailed to subscribers via a certain class of mail in order to avoid any requirement for a circulation audit, which would have provided that date. The cover date is no indication: they often appeared on newsstands prior to that month, plus were actually produced as long as four or five months prior in order to satisfy the printer's lead time requirements.RadioKAOS (talk) 12:28, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I will not protest the deletion. I did not know about how mass deletions work at the time, and, as I got a message telling me one by one deletion is not acceptable, I felt frustrated, I stopped and forgot about it with time, as no other action has been taken. I am really sorry the situation got worse. CoffeeEngineer (talk) 16:42, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RadioKAOS: I agree that determining the exact date when this magazines were published is difficult, but as you pointed out the magazines were in cirulation before the cover date. Therefore, there would be no edge cases where an edition was published after the date indicated on it's cover date.
Furthermore, as per Copyright Office's Circular 1 regarding Copyright Basics: [1]

Under copyright law, publication is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership or by rental, lease, or lending. Offering to distribute copies or phonorecords to a group of people for purposes of further distribution, public performance, or public display also constitutes publication.

Which means even if the magazines only began to be sold exactly on the day indicated by the cover date it would already be considered to be published before that date as they would have already been distributed to resellers. Pfcab (talk) 14:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RadioKAOS: OK, I'm sure you know better than I about copyright issues. Krok6kola (talk) 19:23, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Going section by section...
    •  Keep those in the first batch dated up to 23 October 1987, as copyright was not registered within 5 years of publication, per CeltBrowne above
    •  Delete those in the first batch dated 23 October 1987 and later, as copyright was registered within 5 years of publication, per CeltBrowne above
    •  Delete the remainder, nominator's rationale in each of the other sections justifies that they are likely copyrighted.
      -Consigned (talk) 20:48, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Leaning delete those in the first batch dated 1987, unless we can prove the date of publication is before 23 October 1987
      If a magazine is sent out or on store shelves by October 1987, then obviously the photograph had to be taken before that date. Therefore isn't anything up to September 1987 automatically safe? CeltBrowne (talk) 11:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Yes, things up to Sep 1987 should be safe. I thought we only had the year for 1987 files, but looking into a few we do have month or season, and many files have specific dates, so will clarify my comment with the specific dates. Consigned (talk) 12:55, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      The benchmark would be the publication date, which is not the same as the cover date. As I previously mentioned, these magazines typically avoided circulation audits so they could inflate their circulation numbers to their audience. The tricky part is going to be determining that date. One of the magazines I own is the March 1976 issue of Inside Wrestling. The issue describes events which occurred in October and November 1975. A story on Terry Funk contains an appended note next to the headline referring to Funk winning the NWA World's Heavyweight Championship, which occurred on December 10, 1975. That doesn't necessarily mean that the note was added in while it was at the printer. In his autobiography, Bill Apter said wrestling promoters trusted Stanley Weston enough to provide him such information in advance. Anyway, based on prior discussions I've read, the publication date could be construed as the date it left the publisher's office(s), not the date it appeared on newsstands. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 14:41, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment I started a thread at VPT Commons:Village pump/Technical#Query to find dates of DR items to see if someone technically minded can bring the dates from the files into the first list, so that those before/after 23 Oct 1987 can be more easily identified. Consigned (talk) 13:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done --Geohakkeri (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome, thank you! Consigned (talk) 16:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: deleted the files from the first batch published after Oct. 1987, kept files from first batch published before Oct. 1987 per discussion. Deleted the other batches per discussion. --Abzeronow (talk) 21:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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