Talk:GLONASS

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/25/glonass.shtml

Russia is enlarging its orbital grouping with three spacecraft of the Global Navigation Satellite System (GLONASS) at one go, Russian Space Agency Roskosmos said Sunday.

Russia launched a Proton-K carrier rocket with three satellites from the Baikonur space center in Kazakhstan at 8:07 a.m. Moscow time (5:07 a.m. GMT), RIA Novosti reported.

“The trio includes one spacecraft of an old make (three-year service life) and two satellites of the new modification GLONASS-M with better specifications and a service life of seven years,” press service head of the Space Troops Alexei Kuznetsov told Itar Tass.

According to Roskosmos, the carrier rocket was launched in accordance with the schedule.

Under the federal space program approved by the government, the GLONASS satellite group will be expanded to at least 18 satellites by 2007. Currently, the system includes 14 satellites in orbit.

The main purpose of the GLONASS network is to provide global positioning services for various military and civilian customers. GLONASS satellites incessantly transmit information on exact coordinates of air, sea, land and space objects.

I deleted the claim that the system was "[f]ormerly operated for the Russian government by the Russian Space Forces, it is now being jointly developed by Russia and India" because it's simply not true and lacks any citation. In fact, the GLONASS is still exclusively operated by the Space Forces (cf. interview of the CINC RS Space Forces, Novosti Komonavtiki, February 2007 issue), while India is only involved in terms of signal sharing (they'll get access to the military signal) and will partly provide space launchers for the Uragan spacecraft. Period.

http://lenta.ru/news/2006/12/22/glonass/ states that Russia was planning to launch 3 new GLONASS satellites, which would bring the total number up to 18. Those 3 satellites were successfully launched on December 25: http://www.lenta.ru/news/2006/12/26/glonass/. Therefore, today (2006-12-29) there are, presumably, 18 GLONASS satellites in orbit. So why does the article say there are 12? Are there any verifiable sources for that number? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tetromino (talk • contribs)

Yes, this needs to be clarified and corrected. I wanted to do so previously, but there is some confusion on which number to include. This Wiki article currently says "12 are in operation". Official website of GLONASS presents the table of satellites currently in orbit, according to which, 11 are currently in operation, while 5 are "temporarily switched off". Three recently launched satellites are not included in the table at all yet. So, how should we rephrase the sentence? Maybe we should say something like "19 are in orbit with 11 of them in operation"? Cmapm 12:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

You are right, only 11 are in operation. And according to http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2021, the Russian flight control center "took control of" the 3 new satellites on December 26. So I am assuming that they are adjusting the orbit and running various tests, and that the 3 new satellites are not yet a part of the GLONASS cluster. So I might say something like "On December 29, 2006, there were 16 satellites in the GLONASS system, of which 11 were in operation. An additional 3 satellites were launched on December 25, but they have not yet been activated."

Also, with 11 satellites active, the 94% availability is not correct. According to http://www.glonass-ianc.rsa.ru/pls/htmldb/f?p=202:24:7305574700466879622::NO::: (for some reason there is no English version of this page), GLONASS coverage is 52% of Russian territory and 40% of the globe. (Although, judging by the map, the populated parts of Russia have nearly perfect coverage.) Tetromino 15:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

Near perfect coverage? Looking at the Google translation, "Availability is calculated on the basis of this anthology for daily interval as a percentage of time during which the condition PDOP <=6" most of the world is in the dark red 25% - 50% section, which I take to mean that between 25%-50% of the time the signal is acceptable. "A PDOP of 4 or below gives excellent positions. A PDOP between 5 and 8 is acceptable."[1] The way I see the image, the the lighter the color the better, white = 100% of the time PDOP <=6. Of course the Google translation is a Beta, so it might be wrong. --Dual Freq 15:27, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

Interesting. At first I assumed that black is better (since low PDOP values are better, and since I imagine they would want good coverage in the North Caucasus). But maybe the color scale doesn't have anything to do with PDOP and directly represents coverage instead; in that case white would be better. Without a properly labeled scale, it's hard to tell what the map really represents. Tetromino 15:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

I've introduced respective changes, adding, that global availability is 40.0%. Cmapm 17:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

If I'm reading it right, it's even lower (29% Global, 32% Russia). I always thought that GLONASS was a bit better than this. Zetetic Apparatchik 11:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

Yes, because they temporarily switched off one more satellite yesterday. I wonder, when three satellites launched in December 2006 will be included in the table, for how long are others switched off and why. I'll update the article in a while, though. Cmapm 12:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

How does everyone feel about adding the roman-character version of the Russian name? I found it spelled this way at another site:

Global'naya Navigatsionnaya Sputnikovaya Sistema

I think it would be a good addition. - Davandron | Talk 16:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)Reply

The English-Russian-language connections are even more intimate: "GLONASS" can be interpreted as a transliteration into English of the Russian acronym, as an acronym of the translation into English of the full Russian name, or as an acronym of the transliteration into English of the full Russian name. These relationships occur because of the cognates for "global", "navigation", and "system" between English and Russian and the coincidence of the same initial phoneme for "satellite". Whether any of this is intentional, I do not know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.53.195.38 (talk) 17:45, 30 July 2012 (UTC)Reply

I've been working on a major rewrite of the article, to improve its quality and quantity of information. It still has some rough spots, so please feel free to help. I'm going to try and intro the pieces one section at a time, so that the changes are understandable and trackable. - Davandron | Talk 03:28, 6 April 2007 (UTC)Reply

It's wrote in the article "It is stated that at peak efficiency the system's standard positioning and timing service provide horizontal positioning accuracy within 57-70 meters, vertical positioning within 70 meters, velocity vector measuring within 15 cm/s, and time transfer within 1 µs (all within 99.7% probability)." I've read that the horizontal accuracy will reach 1-5m. Here's the link http://www.caemc.ru/Caemc/page.php?trid=760 (Russian) May be just to add that the accuracy will be the same that GPS has by 2011, and if GPS and GLONASS will cooperate the precision is under 1m? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrushkapodn (talk • contribs) 07:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)Reply

Accuracy is monitored in realtime here:

Real time GLONASS monitoring

As we see the system is much more precise than 57-70 meters.

--Varnav (talk) 21:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

See also Russian system of differentional correction and monitoring. Precision of GLONASS navigation definitions. --Dryzhov (talk) 14:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

According to http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/navsats/theory.html (referenced in the article) :

Although buried in thermal noise and interferences, these signals can still be used, since the given bandwidth and megabits-per-second rates apply to a known code and not to the information bandwidth, which is smaller than 1kHz for both timing and Doppler-shift measurements and the navigation data transmitted at 50bps. In other words, GPS and GLONASS signals are direct-sequence spread-spectrum signals, using Code-Division Multiple Access (CDMA) techniques.

This contradicts the article:

A change in the GLONASS system from its current FDMA technique to the GPS and Galileo's DSSS format would enable a simply-designed receiver to use both satellite systems simultaneously.

--Ysangkok (talk) 00:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)Reply

Today, one rogue satellite (no 6) managed to shut down many receivers around the world due to a faulty satellite almanac. Grrr....I had to work for 8 hours to correct the error in all our instruments and machines :( --MoRsE (talk) 17:11, 29 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

This is an international shame!From a realistic standpoint,the previous version (prior to Oct 3 2018) was much more accessible to people passionate with the universe. Excessive complexification poorly hides a deliberate will to "lose" non-expert readers. For which purpose? Didactic improvements required. Or, are you writing for a scientific review dubbed Wikipedia!? In any case, Any great accomplishmnt is always made simple to understand, regardless of the use of academic terminology and related definitions made available.Ground zero of physics. Where has the trilateration explanation/animated feature gone? Another yet anti-Russian propaganda in preparation? Where is the aim? GLONASS indeed offers civilian applications including securing infrastructures along China's global-sized Marshall plan dubbed OBOR (One belt- One Road) or BRI (Belt and Road initiative). Glonass GNSS' speed,accuracy and stealthiness capabilities strongly suggest that Russia has taken the lead of the AI era but more significantly, it indicates unmatched Russian airspace-military superiority for the foreseeable future.These observations are fundamental in order to ease access to geo-political and ontological dimensions. As an overall : pompous and disappointing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.225.145.238 (talk) 22:03, 14 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

I may start working on rewriting this article sometime in the future. It would be great to hear opinions on how the article could be improved. I think it's relatively poorly structured, has excessive detail and doesn't have enough information about the satellites themselves and the source usage is confusing (for example, there is no url for the ref "The services of system..." Ria Novosti, 2007). Any opinions and suggestions would be appreciated. Offliner (talk) 17:24, 30 October 2010 (UTC)Reply

This article lacks substantial details about the technology, message formats, etc. The complete standard is now available in Russian, but I don't think there are any publications in English on this, since GLONASS has only been available for civilian use since 2007, and current FDMA signal formats are going to be deprecated anyway.

I have added details on the modernization program and future CDMA signals. If you wish, I can also try to provide a summary of FDMA messages from the text of the standard, however I am not a specialist in satellite navigation and can not dive much deeper; I need to have a short list of most important topics specific to GLONASS implementation. --Dmitry _{(talk •contibs )} 13:17, 26 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

The article lacks description of how the signal is used with common receivers - how to switch between GPS and Glonass, and what the consequences may be regarding parameters relevant for users, such as map use, update speed, signal strength and so on. In essence; a comparison with GPS from a user viewpoint. TGCP (talk) 22:34, 1 March 2011 (UTC)Reply

On the other hand, there are English language specifications titled Interface Control Document' Edition 5.1, 2008 and Version 4.0, 1998; these only describe current FDMA signals though. --Dmitry _{(talk •contibs )} 07:09, 27 November 2010 (UTC)Reply

This article reads fine, and was updated 5 dec, 2010 with the latest launch failure of the Proton rocket. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.49.23.61 (talk) 10:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)Reply

This article is desperately missing pictures. I'd like to encourage everyone to try to find free pictures or request Creative Commons permissions for others. What we need at least are photographs of the satellites, receivers, production facilities and people involved in the development. Nanobear (talk) 15:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

I think the year intervals in the subchapter headings, which now have been removed were quite nice. They gave a good overview of the chronology. They were also important because they made it clear these subchapters are in chronological order. So, for example, "achieving full orbital constellation" refers to the years before 1995, not to the current situation (which also could be described with the same title). I think we should restore the years. Nanobear (talk) 10:55, 6 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

I'd like to restore the year numbers. Any objections? Nanobear (talk) 04:45, 22 June 2011 (UTC)Reply

Where are GLONASS devices? Are there phones with GPS and GLONASS?--78.48.47.19 (talk) 19:33, 25 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

iPhone 4 [[2]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.231.2.201 (talk) 11:19, 19 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

Er no!.[[3]]. Try iPhone 4S 109.145.21.107 (talk) 18:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)Reply

"with mean number of NSV"

What is NSV? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.78.124.130 (talk) 13:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)Reply

iPhone is not first intl phone to support GLONASS. There are dozens of phones with same chipset series - HTC starting from Desire S and Incredible S. SE xperia ray, neo and arc. Nokia Lumia 710 and 800. etc etc etc. Elk Salmon (talk) 13:12, 19 December 2011 (UTC)Reply

Here are some links related to the 1 April 2014 outage:

• BBC News: Map illustrates 'Russian GPS' failure
• UNAVCO: Russian GLONASS Global Navigation Satellite System April Outage and UNAVCO
• GPS World: GLONASS Gone ... Then Back
• GPS World: The System: GLONASS in April, What Went Wrong

Loss of the entire operating constellation is unprecedented, and probably deserves coverage in our article. -- ToE

I corrected a typo in the value of one of the CDMA frequencies; a correct value 1202.025 can be found in Navipedia and GPS World and it is hardwired in our (Septentrio) receivers, so it was verified by actual use :-). Please correct it in other languages. I can do French, Dutch, Russian.--Asimsky (talk) 09:13, 10 April 2015 (UTC)Reply

The most recent interface specification I could find is from 2008 (it is linked to from this article); it is missing a description of the CDMA signals. Where is the official specification of the CDMA signals and all other characteristics of the civilian GLONASS signal not described in the 2008 interface specification?. Regards. Mario Castelán Castro (talk) 23:42, 1 August 2015 (UTC).Reply

The article says:

As of 2015 it is used in most smartphones.^[1]

I have marked that as "dubious" because, after reading the reference, I do not see the claim confirmed at all. At best, the article is simply off topic, explaining how Sony introduced GLONASS support. The internal link is just a list of smart phones supporting it and doesn't prove that a majority of smart phones support GLONASS. We would need another source here, at the very least, or restrict this to say, for example, "used in most smartphones made after 2015" or something.--TheAnarcat (talk) 13:47, 21 August 2015 (UTC)Reply

I have reworded the section address your concern. I still have a problem that the article using 'Global Positioning System' and 'GPS' to refer to the alternative US system.. In fact, 'GPS' is a superset of GLONASS, Gallileo, and the US system etc. The US system is properly called NAVSTAR. 86.149.139.90 (talk) 13:57, 9 September 2015 (UTC)Reply

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Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:49, 22 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

Best space system in world — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.106.117.79 (talk) 12:04, 5 December 2019 (UTC)Reply