Talk:Greater Cairo

The definitions of the Greater Cairo area seems to hint on WP:OR. There is no record or source of definitions listed. It seems to be a combination of what the definitions should be by one editor and not what it is or if one even exists. This leads into to the metropolitan figure being too high compared to other reliable sources such as Demographia and the UN which doesn't put Cairo around the 19 million number. This figure itself seems dubious. Elockid ^(Talk· _Contribs) 20:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

The vast sandy desert of Giza Governorate is especially funny... СЛУЖБА (talk) 18:41, 18 March 2012 (UTC)Reply

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The following section has been moved from user talk:Mahmudmasri#Egyptians. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 15:51, 8 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your edits on Greater Cairo, those weren't my edits, I only removed them to Greater Cairo article since another user insists on adding them and sticking them next to Egyptian nationalist slogans like 'Egypt for Egyptians' and claiming totally false things like the word Masr only meant Cairo not entire Egypt. [1] He Also removes any sites, quotes and books referring to rejection of Arab Nationalism in Egypt. [2]

Kindly see Talk:Egyptians and [3], Would be nice to see your view Mr. Masri. Thank you! Treannmust (talk) 15:46, 8 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

You're welcome. I just want articles to remain rational and neutral. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 15:52, 8 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

Same! But these edits are now on Egyptians page.

(P.S. Also on that page any books/sites/articles regarding any refusal of Arab identity within Egypt are removed,even though it's common knowledge that many Egyptians rejected it and even the Egyptian Parliament and Sadat discussed that matter before when they asked him to change the country's official name since it totally delete our identity and wipe millions off the map.) Treannmust (talk) 16:04, 8 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

Mootje0475, according to what source is Benha – a city around 35 kilometres north of Shubra El Kheima, halfway to Tanta, and clearly non-contiguous with the Cairo Metropolitan Area – part of Cairo? R Prazeres (talk) 15:18, 20 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

@R Prazeres banha is Qaliubiya and Qaliubiya is located in greater Cairo Mootje0475 (talk) 09:05, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Mootje0475: So in other words you have no source to cite, which means it's not verifiable, and you also don't understand what "Greater Cairo" or a "metropolitan area" are, because you apparently think it's a collection of governorates rather than an urban agglomeration and its direct dependencies. Nowhere in this article, or anywhere else, does it say Qalyubiyya Governorate as a whole is part of Greater Cairo, so you're just promoting WP:OR. By the logic you're proposing, the Bahariya Oasis would be part of Cairo because it's in the Giza Governorate, and Giza is clearly part of Greater Cairo. This is nonsense. And on top of that you've continued to edit-war both here and at Cairo, despite already being warned on your user talk page. R Prazeres (talk) 16:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi R Prazeres, I agree that a definition of Greater Cairo is fluid, however there are official, semi-official and practice-based definitions that your edits do not cover. The official designation is as an economic region composed of Cairo, Giza and Qalubia governorates (see GOPP map,[[4]] . A semi-official one is the contiguous metropolis of Cairo, Giza and Shubra al-Kheima cities (this was from the late 70s early 80s) as they share infrastructure and tranport networks, and later expanded to include the suburbs/satellite cities around them (See Cairo governorate page for eg. [[5]]. Ypedia1 (talk) 13:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

I was merely editing so the article conforms to what the current cited source say, as required by Wikipedia:Verifiability. The existing sources, including the one you added, didn't speak of the economic zone definition that encompasses those three governorates in their entirety. Any additional information is obviously welcome but must be clearly sourced, without relying on other personal knowledge or original research (see Wikipedia:No original research if you haven't already).

I have, however, just added the economic zone definition, per your comment, citing another clear reliable source. (I've focused on the main definitions, however; I haven't checked through the entire list of satellite towns and other urban communities in the article, which may be incomplete.) That said, the core definition that is relevant to most readers is certainly the metropolitan area or (semi-)contiguous urban area, so I think the article should begin with that and expand from there, as it did previously. If any new additions to the article rely on one definition but not the other (e.g. in the list of towns), we should try to indicate this in the future so that readers don't get mixed up. R Prazeres (talk) 17:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

This reads much better. I will be compiling a list of of the different applied definitions used in different projects, as they play into different uses, mostly transport planning. Ypedia1 (talk) 20:21, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

Excellent, thanks! Eventually, we might even want to eventually make a section just about all these definitions if the lead starts to feel crowded. R Prazeres (talk) 20:26, 26 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

@R Prazeres: As I checked the sources, I didn't find Imbaba mentioned as a city! Please, find me this quote! --Esperfulmo (talk) 03:19, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Right here, on page 4 like the citation indicates: "Greater Cairo, which includes the Governorate of Cairo, the cities of Giza and Imbaba in the Governorate of Giza located to the west of the Nile River, and the City of Shoubra El Kheima in the Governorate of Kalyubia to the north of Cairo." Even just looking at Cairo on Google Earth, it's clear that Imbaba is contiguous with the rest of Cairo. Administratively, I believe urban Imbaba is just another part of Giza City, but historically it was its own village, and if the source found it necessary to mention it by name then that seems enough to reason to mention it here for clarity. Cheers, R Prazeres (talk) 03:35, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

There is little in Egypt to argue over as both points of view could be correct given the informal/fluid nature of naming. There was once a Markaz (county) Imbaba north of Giza city, that has since been renamed Markaz Manshiyat al-Qanater after the main city (town actually, but in Arabic the word madina is synonymous with town and city) within the county (MAP, List of Giza Markaz-Cities). Till today, I have found official decrees that still use Markaz Imbaba, while others use Manshiyat al-Qanater, and less so the two: Qanater, former Imbaba. Confusingly, the Giza city district of Imbaba, used to be named North Giza, and again, decrees etc... mix the two names (click on 'Imbaba' then 'maps' in this Giza Gov webpage, and you'll get the map titled North Giza. Ypedia1 (talk) 21:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)Reply