Talk:Slot car

The last three paragraphs of the "competition tracks" were written by lionel. If they also apply to 1/24th, then it should be made clear that they apply to both scales. If they do not, then that information should be moved into the HO part of the section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.148.99.38 (talk • contribs) 17:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I would like thank the original author of the Slot Cars section, It is very comprehensive and well done.

Rudy Garriga,

Slick 7 Products —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.131.37.39 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The links sections needs a drastic cleanup,

There seems to be many links that aren't of educational value, but simply contain ads or other stuff that probably doesn't belong in Wikipedia. I took out some of the ad links, but there are probably more there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.37.202.32 (talk • contribs) 18:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I've started by removing a few redundant links & links to personal-type websites. I've also culled some external links from the article text itself and moved them to the external links section, where they can be scrutinized more easily (trust me I won't be upset if they are removed!). There's still much cleanup to do here though. I'll try to get around to it soon, but if any other editors are feeling ambitious feel free to dive in. --AbsolutDan ^(talk) 16:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Reply

Have carried out a drastic cleanup removing all sites where the primary content was commercial. Mighty Antar 16:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

May I offer some comment/reaction from a fresh reader?

1. Wikipedia - World Encyclopedia.
With great respect to the hard working author(s), while there are a few, very few, non-USA references, the overall thrust is unmistakably North American, rather than World. There is, arguably, a larger slot car fraternity in Europe and, to a lesser degree, in the rest of the world, that isn't apparent in the text. This applies particularly to the Organizations and Competitions areas. While I feel sure that was not the intention, the impression is fairly strong to a neutral reader and is probably not ideal in a "World Encyclopedia" setting. Perhaps a good idea to consider rephrasing/rewording/expanding anything that might prove to be ‘arguable’?

2. Abbreviations.
It could be helpful to enlighten inexperienced readers with the full name of organizations such as "HOPRA", on first mention.

3. Miscellaneous.
While it is true that "OO" is the most common (mongrel) scale in UK for model trains, "OO" is never used in connection with slot cars. I suggest removing the "OO" reference.

In Slotless and Digital Slot Racing section, I suggest removal of the word "primitive". It seems too emotive/judgemental and nothing would be lost by its omission, other than elimination of a subjective sounding judgement call, which removal feels appropriate in an Encyclopedia.

Similarly, but opposite, is the rather apparent approval intimated in “Digital slot racing promises to fundamentally change the way in which circuits are constructed . . . etc”. I suggest that a neutral word such as “offers” would be more approriate in an Encyclopedia context. Again, it would seem ‘a good thing’ to strive towards avoiding contentiousness, as far as possible.

I would also suggest separation of slotless from digital – they are so different as to be virtually unrelated.

I hope these comments can be accepted in the spirit intended – strictly neutral and with constructive intent.
--John Tempest 14:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

This article is headed "Slot Car"

But it very quickly meanders off into slot car RACING and the vast majority of the article is actually devoted to the racing aspect and organisation of racing, to the very severe detriment of the basic heading.

My personal opinion is that a VERY long list of who won what racing class in one given year of some championship is of zero educational value to a newcomer who simply wants to know what a slot car is and how it works.

Slot Car Racing should be a separate article - a natural follow on from "Slot Car".

As it is, the existing description of a slot car falls down unbelievably badly by initially failing entirely to mention that slot cars are ELECTRICALLY powered - that is a crucial part of any slot car definition! At no point do I see any mention of the absolute necessity for low voltage, powered metal strips each side of the slot. I am sorry but I must withdraw my yesterday's comment of "Well done so far". It isn't - it's bad, very bad indeed.

I will give this all further thought because, the more I look at it, the clearer it becomes that this article has completely lost its way as any form of informative or educational tool and needs fundamental change.

John Tempest 22:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Reply

I have again deleted and will continue to delete the link to the Mr Coney Slot car show information as this seems to me to be little more than a commercial site that sells products or services as outlined on 'links normally to be avoided' in Wikipedia:External links any comments for or against? Slotblog! should probably be a stub or whatever, as its a social network like CarDomain but I've not had time to even think about how you start setting this up, in fact it seems to me that much of what currently appears on the slot car page should be on sub-pages that explain and develop each element of the subject i.e HO Racing, Wing Cars, digital etc. rather than overly confuse what should be a fairly short definition of the principle theme. Mighty Antar 02:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

Thanks to Mighty Antar (great name - after the Thornycroft lorry, I presume) for his (or her?) diligence in combing the links for commercial entries and other problems.

I was not so charmed, however, by his Dec. 7 edits to the introductory section of the article. After considerable thought, I have somewhat reverted this edit, with some alterations to cover the most important of Antar's concerns. I have also added several references.

Overall, the Dec. edit added many words to the intro, without greatly clarifying meaning or adding a corresponding amount of significant information. In addition, it damaged the hierarchy of significance by reordering the intro to mention historical anomalies before near-universal characteristics.

Some notes:

-- Before the Dec 7 edit, the first sentence adequately defined the term, giving the class of objects it belongs to (powered miniature vehicles) and what differentiates it from the rest of the class (the slot steering system). After the edit, the first sentence no longer fully defined the term.

-- The Dec. edit changes "A slot car is..." to read "Slot car is a generic term used to describe...". True, but except for proper nouns, every entry in the Wikipedia is a generic term used to describe something. I suspect Antar meant to convey that the term is broader than just cars, but that is really not what 'generic' means here, and besides, that issue was already handled in the original intro.

-- "preformed track..." - 'preformed' here can't mean pre-manufactured, since slot car track is often owner-built from wood, etc. If it just means 'constructed by human beings prior to running cars,' then it's obvious and unnecessary.

-- "The term first came into use in the late 1950s to differentiate..." - This was a valid addition, but is a usage note relating to an historical oddity, so I moved it from the beginning to the end of the intro, with the other notes on usage.

-- "In the hands of some enthusiasts, however, any precise relationship with an automobile can be very tentative." -- That's a lot of woords, and I'm not sure what it means. It appears to be a long way to say that some hobbyists create custom bodies, or perhaps, that they run vehicles besides cars. But those points had already been covered succinctly.

-- "The terms 'slot car' and 'slot racing' are loosely interchangeable..." -- I don't think Antar really meant to say that, but clearly, they aren't.

-- "...and as such have been used to encompass other types of model vehicles: motorcycles, aeroplanes, spacecraft, horses, trucks, etc. ..." - I think this was already covered when the original text said that the term also applies to other types of vehicles. Perhaps a separate historical section could be added to the main text, but the intro should be a brief overview of the essentials, and specific mention of such historical oddities as slot-horses, spacecraft, etc. doesn't really belong here.

-- "These terms have also been used to describe ... diesel powered model cars, ..." - A valid point, worth keeping for its historical significance, though by diesel I think Antar meant glow-plug engines using methanol.

-- David

Thanks David

I admit I'm new to Wiki and I rushed in a bit when I saw the banner that the slot car section didn't cite any references or sources as I had some, but the more you look into this whole encyclopedia, the more you realise that the current slot car page and most of the toy and hobby sections are woefully inadequate. The Slot Car page should actually be a lot smaller and work something like the one for sneaker. Similarly, as I said in 'External Links' above, types of slot car and the things that you do with them i.e. digital, HO, build, race etc. need to be on pages by themselves just like the types of things that you can do with sneakers are. I didn't add significantly because it very quickly became clear how inadequate the current page is and just how mammoth remedying it would be!

Sorry you didn't understand what my 'tentative' phrase meant, it was an attempt to clarify the relationship between a Group 7 Wing Car and any currently known type of vehicle, miniature or otherwise. Given Group 7 is what some enthusiasts consider the ultimate in slot cars, do you really feel your current definition is adequate? See http://www.bparkraceway.com/05Concours5.jpg for a typical wing car.

Not sure where you are based, but here in the UK, slot car racing, slot cars and slot racing are all loosely interchangeable terms. They may not be grammatically correct, but they are all used by enthusiasts to describe the same thing. As 'Slot car racing' currently redirects to 'slot car' in Wiki, somethings gotta change somewhere! Mighty Antar 01:27, 28 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

Hello, Antar, Glad to hear from you. I have been taking a strong interest in this article since 19 Dec 2005, when I was appalled to find text equating 1/32 scale with HO. I've written or edited much of the text in the intro and the first part of the article. Since I'm not a competitive racer, I have limited my editing of the second part (competition) to grammar, style, and obvious technical errors, and let the competition guys pretty much have it their own way in terms of what was included.

When I found it, the article was titled "Slot Car Racing" and was written from that perspective. Someone later decided "Racing" was redundant and changed the title to "Slot Car," but did not bother to rewrite the article to conform. I have slowly done edits to bring the text in the first parts into line with the new subject, but, as you and Mr Tempest point out, there is too much racing detail for the current title. I think Mr. Tempest and you are right - the article needs splitting into (at least) two - "Slot Cars" and "Slot Car Racing." If the lists of current champions and personalities are to be kept at all, they should go into separate articles on the particular race organizations to which they belong. But that's a major project, and I haven't felt that energetic lately.

As to the wing cars, yes, I think "miniature autos and other vehicles" covers them in the definition, but I just added the phrase "bodies purpose-designed for miniature racing" in a later paragraph, for clarification.

I'm in Texas (though my mother is English-born), but surely even in the UK, "cars" describes the objects and "car racing" describes the activity, except for highly informal usages such as "Lets go and do slot cars" (i.e. let's go and race). So, to my mind, we cannot say the terms are interchangeable.

Cheers, David D.Helber 21:26, 28 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

Hi David

It's looking good, if you'd like any help tracking down references let me know

Regards Mighty Antar 01:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)Reply

Antar (and anyone else) - I don't have the Scalextric history book; can you can ref the early 1:32 stuff and anything else you see that needs it? Feel free to replace any Graham refs for the Scalextric stuff with your own. He's overused and I hate to use a book on Aurora to ref Scalex, but it's the best I have. Finally remembered to replace your horses, spacecraft, etc. Dubious about some, but the Hertz ref for the horses checked out, so I assume they're all ok. The basic slotcar info is now all together, so it shouldn't be hard to split off the formal competition stuff into a separate "Slot Car Racing" entry. Cheers. -- David

Some time ago, I moved the formal racing details (rules, racing classes, champions, etc.) to a separate Slot Car Racing section. Today I added images of my own and from the German Wiki pages. I replaced earlier pictures. The track picture was dark, muddied and lacked impact. The HO van with diecasts was confusing and didn't show much. The replacement pictures convey most of the same information (and more), but more clearly.

The article is fairly well set for images down through the History section now. Glad to find that image of early Scalextric cars. I'll start work on an image of different kinds of controllers - clicker, plunger, steering-wheel, and pistolgrip - soon. That can go in ELECTRICAL, and there should not be too much problem coming up with a public-domain image of a routed track and plastic track piece for the TRACK section.

We could still use some references in the last part of the article, but it's starting to look good. I think all the contributors deserve a hand.

D.Helber 01:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)Reply

I have nothing against any of the huge number of links that I've just deleted other than wikipedia is not the place for them. Please refer to WP:EL for details. This is an encyclopedia article which attempts to explain what a slot car is and what its for, if you don't think the article fully covers that, then please edit the article and add to our knowledge. If we want links to discussion groups or commercial sites I think we all know how to use google, yahoo etc.etc. Mighty Antar 23:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)Reply

I've reverted this edit because it would have replaced a cited reference and at the moment the Tether car page does cite any sources for its version of history. Mighty Antar 17:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)Reply

This article should mention some of the more unusual track arrangements developed over the years that helped add variety to the track layouts. Our slot car system had plastic riser clips that allowed one piece of track to be be suspended in midair above the other, allowing:

• track to pass over other section as if a hill/tunnel
• spiral stacking, where the road rises in a continuous spiral as if in a large parking garage to ascend great heights (use two stacks together to spiral up, then spiral down)

Also some manufacturers built incline/decline track sections of 30 degrees to 45 degress to allow the cars to practically jump into the air off the track if going too fast.

I seem to recall wall-racing, where two 45-inclines combine to make a 90-degree straight up hill and then track runs up the wall a few feet, does a quick 180 and comes back down. The old style 1970s cars could stay properly aligned to track up and down the wall but can't stay aligned for continuous sideways tracking on a wall.

Some manufacturers specifically sold track kits to allow the cars to do 360 barrel rolls. Without enough speed the car falls off or can't make the rollover.

Also, the old 1960s/1970s cars also used magnet tracking, but not really powerful tracking. This effect wasn't necessarily intentional but was due to the design of the motor -- most used two magnetic pole motors, and the magnets just so happened to be mounted directly above the steel slot power strips, so there was some attraction of the car to the track but not a huge amount.

DMahalko (talk) 15:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

I have corrected the form of the reference tags to these two excellent, noncommercial information resources. They now appear, properly named, in the References.

I have also reinstated the External Links to the Victory/VIP History site (they got lost sometime in 2007) and added a Link for the Slot Car Portal Pictorial Reference site.

There is no question that the informational content on these websites justifies their presence on the article's Links list. Both are used for citations in the article itself, and there is a wealth of relevant information on each, about aspects of slot car history that the article does not cover.

D.Helber (talk) 01:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

I was looking through Public Domain videos at archive.org today and found this video of Gilbert Slot Cars. I would have placed it in the External links section but it looks like this article has had a time with WP:EL issues..so I leave it here for the editors to decide...damn fine article, btw. Cheers,⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

I don't know if Record Breakers: World of Speed could be mentioned in the article (possibly as a note about a different kind of slot car, one that can run independent of the track? Or more likely just as a "See also" note at the end of the article.), but it could use a Wikipedia article of its own. I in time may start one, though I'd be happy if someone did it (and a better job) before I get around to it. I should also note that the TV show co-hosted by Jesse Ventura was an example of televised slot car racing.

Klknoles (talk) 04:49, 29 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

Well, as you can see from the above there is now an article. Record Breakers were atypical slot cars. They were battery operated and could run independently of a track, and I suspect some may question classifying them as slot cars (if not, what else would you call them? They clearly ran in tracks and only differ in the source of power, lack of a blade, and ability to run independently.), and I felt the article could use a mention and so added a bit.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.82.91 (talk) 01:57, 3 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

It's always tempting to add extra information to an article. But in the end the article must be balanced between the amount of info and the relevance and readability of the whole. After considerable thought, I have removed Wahiba's elaborations on the slot car scales, because:

This is a section on slot car scales, not on scale in general. If the reader wants to know alternate names for a scale, or what fraction of an inch in each scale represents a foot, the article provides a link to each scale mentioned. These particular alternate names are, in my experience, seldom used in the slot-car hobby, whose terminology is usually in ratio, (e.g. "1:32"), and not English fractions of an inch per foot, (e.g. "three-sixteenths scale").

The elaborations were inconsistently applied. Metric scales and even partial-metric scales, such as HO and OO did not get elaborations.

The elaborations disrupted the flow of the sentence with a substantial length of awkward type between the subject and the verb or adjective and noun.

They increased the length of the article and the density of the paragraphs, thus discouraging readers, and added little information relevant to the topic.

They looked awkward, with the oversized stacked fractions.

One was factually incorrect. 1/4" scale (1:48) is not O scale. It is American O-scale; British and European O-scale is 1:43 (which did not get an elaboration) or 1:45.

D.Helber (talk) 00:55, 5 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

Thanks to the contributor, but this photo doesn't belong in the Slotcar Scales section, and certainly not at the beginning, displacing a photo which actually illustrates the section's text. There is no other section where it seems to fit well. Though it is attractive, the photo and its caption "Model of the custom painted Midway Homes Mosler, a unique 1:32 scale Ninco slot car", adds nothing to the understanding of the general topic of slot cars. There are already two other photos showing examples of 1:32 slotcars, each suitable to its section - the two racing beetles graphically represent competition in a way the Mosler does not, and the Fly car shows the sophisticated commercial graphics mentioned in the text, which the custom-painted Mosler does not. I removed the photo as redundant. D.Helber (talk) 18:27, 29 December 2009 (UTC)Reply

Ok Jenny Warf (talk) 19:34, 13 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

Ok Jenny Warf (talk) 19:34, 13 June 2016 (UTC)Reply

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