NewsAndEventsGuy
| Although we may disagree, let us do so as rational friends! |
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| Finding consensus in a heated environment |
| Always assume it's possible there's an ambiguity in the text that makes sense one way to you and makes equally good faith sense in a completely different way to someone else. When others try to make it personal don't shoot back. Instead....
Can you respectfully repeat your opponent's viewpoint, without negating it? Often a magic bullet is to ask the other editor for permission to try to repeat back their own argument as neutrally as possible even if you don't agree with it. That instantly tells them you are listening and does 99% of what is possible (at least on your part) to cool things off. The exercise often uncovers simple misunderstandings. see the related essay writing for your opponent. If you try that and they just stay hot and bothered, there's a good chance they've got some compulsory emotional stuff or else lack good faith. In that case, stay calm, don't shoot back, and get some outside help from WP:DRN, WP:ANI, or WP:AE. Feel free to copy reuse trash change distribute. Your mileage may vary. |
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25-50-25
edit- 25% of people will be mad at you (or unteachable) no matter what you do, so don't waste your time trying to change them.
- 25% of people will be thrilled with you (or self-directed learners) so don't waste your time trying to change them.
- Just focus on the 50% where you can make a difference.
DS Alerts I already know about
editIf you've stopped by to DS Alert me.... I already know about the following.... NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:34, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
This user is aware of the designation of the following topics as contentious topics:
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DS review process 2021
editEntirely by accident, I just stumbled across this when I saw it on someone else's talk page. I would have contributed in the "consultation" phase, but I was wikihibernating and didn't know about it. Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/2021_review. In case anyone else doesn't know about it and happens to come by my talk, I thought I'd put this here and invite you to start following that process also. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 00:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
Apologies
editJust wanted to say please forgive my blathering. As you might suspect, we wandered into an area of interest for me. All the same, you make good points, and as I say, happy to go wherever consensus takes us. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 23:46, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
- Please don't apologize, it was much more valuable than many (most?) content discussions I have here! There's nothing more boring as an occassional so called "nontraditional" (read= old) student that to sit in a potentially awesome class with a bunch of dullards who won't ever speak or raise their hand. If we disagree then I'll learn in the process, so the only apology I'm willing to accept is if sometime you realize you had something constructive to add, even if to disagree, but didn't. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 00:04, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Very well said and worthy of being framed and hung on the wall. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:29, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hmmmm.... dartboard? Face of a faux coo-coo clock? My the ideas are endless. When my kid was in gradeschool one day I used a big 10-penny nail to hammer a walnut to the kitchen wall. I mean, where ELSE would you store your walnuts? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:09, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- LMFAO! If your kid had a strong philosophical streak, that nailed walnut might have been the trigger to a great work of philosophy. A hook to hang ideas on. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 10:37, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- You know how things like this become familiar and sort of disappear in our awareness? The mangled nut with the two inches of nail shank protruding captured their attention a couple years later. Shaking their head they said, "Even when I was really little I knew you were a nut, but MY GOD you have truly cracked up!!" NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:43, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Chuckle. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 10:52, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- You know how things like this become familiar and sort of disappear in our awareness? The mangled nut with the two inches of nail shank protruding captured their attention a couple years later. Shaking their head they said, "Even when I was really little I knew you were a nut, but MY GOD you have truly cracked up!!" NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:43, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- LMFAO! If your kid had a strong philosophical streak, that nailed walnut might have been the trigger to a great work of philosophy. A hook to hang ideas on. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 10:37, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hmmmm.... dartboard? Face of a faux coo-coo clock? My the ideas are endless. When my kid was in gradeschool one day I used a big 10-penny nail to hammer a walnut to the kitchen wall. I mean, where ELSE would you store your walnuts? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:09, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Very well said and worthy of being framed and hung on the wall. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 06:29, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Apologies
editApologies for this edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard&oldid=1095216173), I didn't see it that you unarchived it yourself in the edit summary. Somehow, my browser was still at an older version which I opened hours ago and somehow didn't update. Thanks and sorry for the mistake! VickKiang (talk) 07:27, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
- Heh... I didn't even notice until you said something. No worries, it was MY mistake after all. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 03:43, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
Mobile view
editAt the bottom of every page there's a toggle button to go back and forth between mobile and desktop. Moxy- 17:07, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, who knew? Next time I lose my keys I'll scroll down and see if those are lurking down there, too. I've since realized my desktop browser (firefox) has a built in "responsive design mode" allowing one to make the monitor behave like a long list of mobile devices. By combining both that link and this feature I'm able to do what I had hoped.
- I'm curious.... I see the info box at Donald Trump behaving like you recently described, i.e., pretending to be on a iphone it appears after the lead first paragraph. However, at United_States_House_Select_Committee_on_the_January_6_Attack_public_hearings the similar box in the lead simply does not appear, at least it doesn't intefere with the lead. does not behave that way. The box on Donald Trump derives from
- {{Infobox officeholder | (many parameters)}}
- {{2021 United States Capitol attack|expanded=Investigations and charges}}
- From the user's point of view these two boxes look pretty much alike. So why doesn't the code treat them the same?
- And last, is there a place in wikiworld where one can get training or help to be better a better responsive design savvy editor?
- NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 17:42, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- sidebar Navboxs are not seen in mobile view because they just spam overlinking...but an infobox has real data that is usefull to readers. In Canada articles we use {{if mobile}} alot. See Wildlife of Canada or Culture of Canada in both views. Moxy- 21:13, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- This is really useful, thanks Moxy :). Femke (talk) 16:47, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
July 2022
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for making personal attacks towards other editors. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. User talk:Tamzin 22:53, 28 July 2022
- Do not insert yourself into other editors' medical decisions. Do not give them "homework assignment"s regarding mental health care without their consent. Do not, when they give answers that you do not like, accuse them of "gaslighting" or being an "emotional vampire" or "emotional leech". If you have that level of concern with an editor's conduct, raise the matter at AN or AN/I as a straightforward user conduct issue, without such hyperbolic langage. I considered leaving this at a warning, but these comments were far over the line, and you've been here a decade, so I don't think you need me to put you on notice as to the existence of WP:NPA. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 22:54, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you and I appreciate this. Do we have a policy for dealing with on the one hand and supporting on the other, eds who routinely make comments that raise suicide risk red flags to people who know about this field of medicine? I mean, a specific one, that is. If we don't, has that idea ever been discussed somewhere? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:15, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- I'm afraid no, we don't have a good comprehensive set of options for dealing with suicidal editors. For outright suicide threats (not "I've been suicidal lately" but "I'm going to do it tonight"), the WMF takes jurisdiction under WP:EMERGENCY, and local oversighters support by suppressing the threats themselves (both to avoid suicide contagion and because a suicidal person can't be said to have meaningfully consented to saying that.) But for things that aren't really an imminent threat, it's more an ad hoc mixture of administrative actions. If you'd like me to have a word with GoodDay and say that saying that sort of thing makes people uncomfortable and asking that he not, I can. I'd say that's step one in distinguishing between whether someone is being manipulative or just trying to be honest about how they feel.Incidentally, I do have an essay, User:Tamzin/Guidance for editors with mental illnesses, which also has advice on dealing with such editors. I've been thinking of spinning it out into a projectspace essay (maybe Wikipedia:Wikipedia and mental illness) meant as a half-rebuttal-to/half-concurrence-with WP:NOTTHERAPY. Thoughts welcome. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 23:24, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you and I appreciate this. Do we have a policy for dealing with on the one hand and supporting on the other, eds who routinely make comments that raise suicide risk red flags to people who know about this field of medicine? I mean, a specific one, that is. If we don't, has that idea ever been discussed somewhere? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:15, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you care about these issues. And I appreciate that you offered to talk to the other editor. However if you describe my feelings as
"uncomfortable"
, that would be untrue, and now that I have told you if you say it anyway it would be a lie. I'm happy to help you understand what my true feelings about this are/were, but only by email so you don't interpret such comments as another NPA violation and block me again. If you want to understand where I'm coming from, I would welcome that email-based discussion. I'm going to break the ice by emailing you a wiki diff to this comment, so I will expose my email address first. It's up to you if you want to pursue better understanding about this exchange. If not, that's OK, but if you choose that option please recuse from future admin action towards me about anything. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 00:28, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
- I appreciate that you care about these issues. And I appreciate that you offered to talk to the other editor. However if you describe my feelings as
As of Aug 3, 2022, discussion of the underlying potentially life-saving issues has migrated to Wikipedia_talk:Resonding to threats of harm NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 20:14, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- I've replied to your email. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 10:01, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- Great I'll take a look in a few hours.NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:17, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- Replied.NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:32, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
- Great I'll take a look in a few hours.NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:17, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
C fred ds alert
editMy goodness, what has happened? -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:38, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Please elaborate, or just delete this whole thread. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 19:41, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- I was wondering what prompted the DS alert. As you say, please elaborate -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:48, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Sure, for the sake of 3rd party lurkers, the DS Alert is a no-fault FYI and nothing more. I'm sure you know that.... incidentally I detest Okra UNLESS it is in my gumbo recipe that is so super secret I haven't been able to duplicate it, but that one batch was...... to die for. Anyway.... C. Fred was editing a political candidate's BLP and that's all it takes to get a DS alert. Just sticking one's toe in the water of a topic to which DS applied. When the old fault-based WARNING system was overhauled in 2013, I unsuccessfully lobbied for a bot to auto-issue the DS alert whenever anyone made an edit in articls/talk pages that were tagged as belonging to the topic. My sense is that the no-fault system best works without drama or battleground templating when there is ubiquity. In this case, I confess, I got lazy and didn't include the other involved eds. I would ordinarily point you to the article edits and associated talk page edits but with the intent of doubling down on the no-fault nature of the DS Alert I choose to not do that. Instead, I want to re-emphasize that by issuing the FYI alert I am in no way suggesting any transgression, so if you really really want to know for intellectual curiosity and acknowledge that it was just an FYI template, then I will provide those diffs. I just want to dot these i's and cross those t's so we're all on the same page.... it was just an FYI nothing more. But it does start a 12-month clock of "awareness" as to the ARBCOM decision on US politics. If you want to figure it out on your own, use the editor interaction tool. But I'll share those details, if we document there's no sparks, just an FYI. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 20:02, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. I was worried. There are some subjects I wish we auto-alerted for. Sigh. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:14, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- If the ARBS feel they must issue edicts, then I share your desire on each and every of those topics. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 20:47, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. I was worried. There are some subjects I wish we auto-alerted for. Sigh. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:14, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- Sure, for the sake of 3rd party lurkers, the DS Alert is a no-fault FYI and nothing more. I'm sure you know that.... incidentally I detest Okra UNLESS it is in my gumbo recipe that is so super secret I haven't been able to duplicate it, but that one batch was...... to die for. Anyway.... C. Fred was editing a political candidate's BLP and that's all it takes to get a DS alert. Just sticking one's toe in the water of a topic to which DS applied. When the old fault-based WARNING system was overhauled in 2013, I unsuccessfully lobbied for a bot to auto-issue the DS alert whenever anyone made an edit in articls/talk pages that were tagged as belonging to the topic. My sense is that the no-fault system best works without drama or battleground templating when there is ubiquity. In this case, I confess, I got lazy and didn't include the other involved eds. I would ordinarily point you to the article edits and associated talk page edits but with the intent of doubling down on the no-fault nature of the DS Alert I choose to not do that. Instead, I want to re-emphasize that by issuing the FYI alert I am in no way suggesting any transgression, so if you really really want to know for intellectual curiosity and acknowledge that it was just an FYI template, then I will provide those diffs. I just want to dot these i's and cross those t's so we're all on the same page.... it was just an FYI nothing more. But it does start a 12-month clock of "awareness" as to the ARBCOM decision on US politics. If you want to figure it out on your own, use the editor interaction tool. But I'll share those details, if we document there's no sparks, just an FYI. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 20:02, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
- I was wondering what prompted the DS alert. As you say, please elaborate -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:48, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
ANI
editThere is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Anythingyouwant (talk) 02:44, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
- Pinpoint link for convenience Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:NewsAndEventsGuy NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 11:54, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
You’ve been mentioned in an SPI making accusations against you
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
You were mentioned here.[1] It doesn’t seem that the editor making accusations against you properly informed you of his SPI against you (which could have the effect of a banning a member). Advising you boomerang this to ANI to have his TBAN reinstated since it’s obvious he is scapegoating you for his ongoing soapbox against Wikipedia refusing to drive his NPOV agenda. 174.215.18.76 (talk) 16:52, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the head's up. I'm not sure if the SPI allegation is comical or pathetic, but either way it is surely toxic. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 02:12, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
- Just noting that this has spread to User_talk:Augusthorsesdroppings10#NPA and User_talk:Augusthorsesdroppings10#DS_Alert_US_Politics NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 16:02, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
In a truly soap-opera-esque twist, your alleged sox are actually sox of this very IP. :D All sorted now, for some value of sorted. Histmerged without redirect to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ethiopique. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 10:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
- oh, now I get it. The OP of this thread is one of the socks making trouble. Got it. Thanks, NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
2022 United States House of Representatives elections
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We meet again. User:Flora Wilshire has a history of ignoring reverts and pushing their version, which is usually a criticism of America or praise of the Chinese government.
I can see why you would consider "known POV editor" to be a violation of WP:ASPERSIONS, but WP:NPA says casting aspersions would be, "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence, usually in the form of diffs and links".
I'm happy to link to these diffs to stand by what I said.
On the other hand, I'm curious what you would consider to be a more acceptable way to explain someone's editing history in an edit summary. I try consistently to explain edits, especially reversions. Augusthorsesdroppings10 (talk) 00:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- See WP:FOC and next time you do an edit, bear that in mind and you will have an easier time here. (For third parties who may be interested in the background see this)....NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:07, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry that I broke the red box, I did not realize I did that.
- I presume you're fine with me reinstating my edit to the article, so I have. Augusthorsesdroppings10 (talk) 02:50, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- Also @Flora Wilshire was the editor we were talking about. I forgot to ping her, but she still found this discussion. Augusthorsesdroppings10 (talk) 02:53, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- I still got the initial notification.
- (P.S. I'm a male whose preferred pronouns are he/him, will edit the user page to clarify!) Flora Wilshire (talk) 02:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
- See WP:FOC and next time you do an edit, bear that in mind and you will have an easier time here. (For third parties who may be interested in the background see this)....NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:07, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message
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Nomination of Sabato's Crystal Ball for deletion
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It's so nice to see you around still! I saw you give out an old DS notice. You may have missed the conclusion of the recent DS reforms. The wording DS is now replaced with the more intuitive CT (contentious topic). The way notifications are done is changed in two ways too:
- We only have to give a notice once per topic (no more yearly renewals)
- The very first notice somebody gets is different and has much more info. You'd use {{alert/first|cc}}, which gives you the long text you can read at {{alert/first}}.
Cheers! —Femke 🐦 (talk) 19:44, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
- Appreciate you saying hello and the howto tip. To be honest, it was momentary relapse, only. Carry on. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 19:31, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
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Your Teahouse question
editI just saw this and it's something I'd like to have. Did you ever find an answer?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:43, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Precious anniversary
edit| Five years! |
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Your Teahouse question
editDid you find an answer to this question, which I saw in the archives? If not, WP:VPT might be the place to ask.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 00:24, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
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