Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine

Hi, I'd like someone way more knowledgeable about biology to take a look at Human penis#Female phenotypic quality. I raised some concerns on the talk page yesterday, but no one has commented yet. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 08:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Clovermoss Thank you for bringing this to our attention! IntentionallyDense ^(Contribs) 14:46, 15 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

It looks like we need to strip ancient and primary sources out of that article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

It looks like we need a few med students at d:Wikidata talk:WikiProject Medicine#Modelling internship, residency, fellowship of physicians to talk about how education and training of physicians is organized in each country (e.g., is residency "employment"?). Please join the discussion over there. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:43, 16 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Consciousness has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 16:15, 16 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

At Waist-to-height_ratio#Recommended_boundary_values there are clear boundary values 0.4, 0.5 and 0.6 and above.

Any boundaries known below WHtR 0.4? E.g. for

• Anorexia_nervosa
• Emaciation
• what is the lean counterpart of Obesity-associated_morbidity?

Uwappa (talk) 09:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Uwappa I’m not fully sure of your question here but I’ll try my best to answer.

Anorexia is diagnosed based partially off BMI not waist to height ratio although i’m sure you could find some study that gives info on the average WHtR.

Malnutrition, specifically Malnutrition#Effects has information on the health effects of malnutrition. Anorexia nervosa#Prognosis goes over the complications of anorexia as well. IntentionallyDense ^(Contribs) 19:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Doing a little quick math, for an average-height woman, it's called Size zero. The average US woman is 5'4", and 0.4 ratio means a waist size below 25.5", which is a size 0 dress on the Lands' End website (it will be a size 2 or 4 for some other brands). It's not automatically a medical problem.

I don't think there is a single lean counterpart, because causes become more important. Anorexia nervosa, BTW, can appear in any size body. It's about what happens in your head, not about the current shape of your body. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:46, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Please have a look at: Waist-to-height_ratio#Recommended_boundary_values and  .

NICE defines 0.4 as the lower bound of healthy.

Anything below 0.4 is unspecified, grey in the chart.

Any source that defines 'yellow' and 'red' boundaries below 0.4?

Is grey really grey? Unspecified? Really? Uwappa (talk) 21:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

It might be. The thing is, especially for women, two individuals could have the same overall body composition, but because one has an hourglass figure and the other has a straight/rectangular figure, they could fall on different sides of the same line. That doesn't mean that the one with the narrower waist is more or less healthy. The cutoff lines for these things are always somewhat arbitrary. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yes, I understand all of that, especially at the high end of the scale. That is not my question.

The question is: Any boundary values known below 0.4, just like above 0.5? Uwappa (talk) 21:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Martha Hughes Cannon has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 01:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

thank you for post--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Is there a consensus that using PCORI is an acceptable WP:MEDRS source? There is a six-year old discussion about using PCORI that was pointed out to me. -Whywhenwhohow (talk) 00:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I place PCORI in the same category as CDC or NIH. But I have seen edit wars centered on whether or not an NIH medical dictionary was WP:MEDRS, and the resolution was not(!), so I suppose these sources in whole or in part may not be WP:MEDRS. But if none of their work product is, one starts to get very close to the conclusion that nothing is WP:MEDRS. Jaredroach (talk) 11:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

One of the challenges with "MEDRS" is that there is the ideal (e.g., a peer-reviewed review article published in a highly reputable journal within the last five years) and then there is the good-enough (you don't need an "ideal" source to say that the common cold is caused by a virus). Even if PCORI isn't "ideal", it might be "good enough", depending on what's being said. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I agree. I think that it is depending on what is being shared from the source and if it is a medical claim or paraphrased background information that fills an important gap in an article.JenOttawa (talk) 22:30, 27 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've started an article on Arthur E. Hertzler. Having started to dig into the numerous references about him, there's much more there than I currently have the time to write about, particularly in material found at this page. There is also other material that I can see referenced, but can't read because of journal paywalls, such as this article, and there's material about him in The Kansas Doctor: A Century of Pioneering by Thomas Neville Bonner, which I also don't have access to.

Hertzler by all accounts seems to have lived a fascinating life, and was clearly both brilliant and quite a character. Would anyone here be interested in expanding this article? — The Anome (talk) 07:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

The JAMA article is available via Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library. After you're logged in, this direct link will probably work. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi, a friend at Wikimedia UK suggested it could be wise to post about this here: I have a piece just out in Thinking Person's Guide to Autism, on 'How Wikipedia Systematically Misleads People About Autism'. It describes some of my experiences editing relevant pages here, and argues that Wikipedia's autism coverage is badly out of date. I don't use the term in the article, but effectively Wikipedia's guidelines tend to enshrine a strong status quo bias. One consequence of this is that a biomedical framing of autism is largely taken for granted, despite the attitudes and insights of contemporary autism specialists, not to mention autistic communities.

I understand that similar biases have affected Wikipedia's coverage of marginalised groups across the board, but it seems that to date, there has been far more coordinated and institutional investment in correcting systematic gender bias, LGBT exclusion and racial prejudice.

I bring this up here because my impression is that Wikipedia's main Autism entry has inherited a framing and structure that is ubiquitous in our coverage of diseases and disorders, but which is questionably relevant and arguably unhelpful when it comes to something like autism - with pathophysiology, management, prognosis, epidemiology and so on.

Its physiology is much-studied, but still poorly understood, and many would question the appropriateness of the 'patho-' prefix; 'management' is not really an appropriate way of thinking about a difference that affects someone's entire way of being; 'prognosis' can be summed up in the single word 'lifelong'; 'epidemiology' …I mean, there are some reasonably interesting things to be said about the statistics (variations in which inevitably reflect the limitations of the data more than objective real-world differences) but there are so many other things that are more important.

So I guess I'm posting here partly to just give people a heads-up about the article, and partly to enquire about how attached people are to this general structure… and why?

I note that gender dysphoria is a separate article from transgender, allowing one to focus on the formal, medicalised interpretation of trans experience, while the other is more about being trans. Stuff that non-clinicians are actually likely to want to know, or benefit from knowing. Not sure that's an ideal solution, but it's an interesting one that's been discussed a couple of times in Talk:Autism as well; there are various helpful parallels that are worth considering, I think. Oolong (talk) 18:12, 25 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello, all:

We've been working this month on getting at least one source into unreferenced medicine-related articles. There are now less than 100 unsourced articles on the list! A few years ago, that list was over 400 articles. Less than a year ago, it was over 200 articles. We have made really good progress this year. Please take a minute and see if you can add a source to at least one article.

We are doing this now to support the Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced articles/Backlog drives/November 2024 and also because we think that sources are particularly important for anything medicine-related on Wikipedia. The backlog drive has officially resulted in about 7,000 of Wikipedia's unsourced articles getting a new source (i.e., with #NOV24 in the edit summary), plus all the pages that got new references but which weren't tagged.

Please join in and do your bit. We'd really appreciate it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Spinal disc herniation#Requested move 13 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 21:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

commented--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

In the valvular heart disease article in the section on treatment of Aortic valve disorder, it is said that treatment is normally surgical, with catheter treatment for special cases. I have just been told by a cardiologist that catheter treatment is now preferred for all patients. 38.55.71.51 (talk) 18:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Why_MEDRS ?--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 02:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

If someone with the relevant expertise could look at this baffling language in the Fatigue article, that would be wonderful. MartinPoulter (talk) 14:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Fixed. Jaredroach (talk) 15:14, 3 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi! I noticed that there are no articles on Retinal tuft or Vitreomacular traction syndrome, common eye conditions that can lead to retinal detachments. I have never started an article before and decided to try it out. I would love some help expanding to the level where I can submit it. Suggestions super welcome. I am also curious how much I should expand it before I submit it. Are stubs accepted? If so, can I submit now?

• Draft:Retinal tuft
• Draft:Vitreomacular traction syndrome

Thank you so much! JenOttawa (talk) 14:27, 3 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

While I encourage you to write more, both of the articles look acceptable for WP:AFC. IntentionallyDense ^(Contribs) 20:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Both of these articles are in the mainspace now. Thank you for your work! WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:27, 5 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello everyone, in an attempt to get Neurocysticercosis to FA status I have begun a WP:Peer review on the topic which can be found at Wikipedia:Peer review/Neurocysticercosis/archive1. Any input is welcomed! IntentionallyDense ^(Contribs) 22:04, 3 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've created 2024 unknown Democratic Republic of Congo disease outbreak. I hope this isn't premature, but it seemed to me like there was enough to start an article. The name will probably have to change as learn more. Input from others very welcome. Bondegezou (talk) 11:35, 6 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

lab results pending doubtful it's 'unknown'--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:45, 6 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sorry, I missed there was already 2024 Kwango province disease outbreak. Will merge. Bondegezou (talk) 12:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks. It's not unusual to get a couple of people simultaneously starting articles on events. The ocean-near-California earthquake yesterday had half a dozen people starting articles that all got merged up. I treat it as proof that someone else also thought the subject was notable. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:50, 6 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

I recently created a draft for Delay, Deny, Defend (practice), which has recently gotten a lot of press in the aftermath of the Killing of Brian Thompson. There is currently an article for the book Delay, Deny, Defend, but I believe the practice is notable enough for its own article. I'd appreciate any help with sourcing. Thank you, Thriley (talk) 20:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Assisted suicide#Requested move 30 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 05:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

We at Wiki Project Med Foundation are supporting an illustrator. Do folks here have drawings they wish to see created? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:16, 9 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

 

In 2015, an illustrator made this diagram for us. Perhaps this will spark an idea for someone. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi! I came across this article from the list of uncited articles. It has some very very very outdated citations! I looked briefly on pubmed and also did some hand searching on google for anything anywhere near a MEDRS source. I am now out of time and figured I would post it here in case someone else wants to try this challenge! Perhaps there is a more common name for this condition of a distorted pelvis that is being missed? Not sure how they got the incidence quote etc. Happy editing!

Pelvis justo major

JenOttawa (talk) 13:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

this is the only thing I found--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:14, 11 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks @Ozzie10aaaa:. I found a book on amazon that was written from the Wikipedia article. Yikes! https://www.amazon.com.au/Pelvis-Justo-Major-Fernande-Antigone/dp/613793196X Not using this source- ha! JenOttawa (talk) 15:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

yes, that happens alot,Ozzie--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Here's the discussion for anyone interested. Urchincrawler (talk) 16:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

thanks for post--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:06, 11 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hello everyone,

I hope that you are in good spirits. My name is Serine Ben Brahim and I am a part of the Let’s Connect working group - a team of movement contributors/organizers and liaisons for 7 regions : MENA | South Asia | East, South East Asia, Pacific | Sub-Saharan Africa | Central & Eastern Europe | Northern & Western | Latina America.

Wikimedia has 18 projects, and 17 that are solely run by the community, other than the Wikimedia Foundation. We want to hear from sister projects that some of us in the movement are not too familiar with and would like to know more about. We always want to hear from Wikipedia, but we also want to meet and hear from the community members in other sister projects too. We would like to hear your story and learn about the work you and your community do. You can review our past learning clinics here.

We want to invite community members who are:

• Part of an organized group, official or not
• A formally recognized affiliate or not
• An individual who will bring their knowledge back to their community
• An individual who wants to train others in their community on the learnings they received from the learning clinics.

To participate as a sharer and become a member of the Let’s Connect community you can sign up through this registration form.

Once you have registered, if you are interested, you can get to know the team via google meets or zoom to brainstorm an idea for a potential learning clinic about this project or just say hello and meet the team. Please email us at Letsconnectteam@wikimedia.org. We look forward to hearing from you :)

Many thanks and warm regards,

Let’s Connect Working Group Member

  Serine Ben Brahim Serine Ben Brahim (talk) 09:14, 11 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Requesting input on this topic here at WikiProject Pharmacology. Thanks. – AlyInWikiWonderland (talk, contribs) 10:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

commented--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:33, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

I started this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Molecular Biology, and it was suggested that I inquire here. Basically, Wikipedia has tens of thousands of articles on individual human genes, many bot-made and maintained with very little human attention. TNIK caught my eye because a happened to read about clinical trials underway for inhibitors thought to be cancer-preventative. As noted in the other discussion, Wikipedia coverage of gene-directed trial therapies ranges from something like USP1 (which currently contains no information on investigative efforts), to CD47 (which is reasonably well-covered in this respect). BD2412 T 20:34, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

added some recent papers, general research--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:04, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

The WHO has released their first-ever Global Report on Drowning Prevention. It has national statistics, risk factors, evidence-based prevention recommendations, and more.

Pbsouthwood, Belbury, Ex nihil, Scriptir EMsmile, would this interest any of you? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, I will take a look. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 02:54, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi WikiProject Medicine,

The Lancet has a kind of article called a 'Personal View' that is peer reviewed. It has a lot of the formalities of a review article -- description of search strategy and selection criteria, extensive citations for claims, etc. Does this count as a review, and if not, does it still count as a suitable secondary source for biomedical information? Daphne Morrow (talk) 11:12, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Oh I forgot to add. 'Personal View' articles come up when you search The Lancet for review articles only, so clearly The Lancet's editors consider them as part of the Review category. But does WikiProject Medicine? Daphne Morrow (talk) 11:34, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Should be fine for non-contentious knowledge and non-novel claims. Novel personal views may be due and should probably be attributed. Any examples in mind? Bon courage (talk) 11:37, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for this.

I was asking in general but here is an example:

Hashimoto’s disease has a widely discussed issue with persistent symptoms in about 10-15% of patients despite euthyroid status. There’s a number of commonly discussed hypotheses for why this might be. An article like this https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(22)00004-3/abstract

discusses one of the more common hypotheses, that some patients lack peripheral tissue conversion of t4 into t3. I feel something like this makes for a suitable source in context? Daphne Morrow (talk) 13:03, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

I think that an article like this would be sufficient for paraphrasing a background section of an article, if a higher quality review/textbook etc is not available. In my own editing I would not share the hypotheses of a mechanism responsible for persisting symptoms from a commentary article without higher quality supporting MEDRS sources.JenOttawa (talk) 13:13, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you Jen, that makes perfect sense. Daphne Morrow (talk) 13:17, 14 December 2024 (UTC)Reply