Talk:Twitter: Difference between revisions

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. There is currently no consensus on this now oft-proposed move, and the community remains strongly divided. It is unclear what the current WP:COMMONNAME is: the recent YouGov surveys referenced by Patar knight point one way, while many sources using "X" point the other. There is no consensus that "X" is the common name here. Whether "X" under Elon Musk is a different service from "Twitter" is a different conversation, but one that is still worthwhile.

Also, to all participants in this discussion – please keep your !votes policy-based. There were many !votes here, from both new and established editors, that provided no evidence or were based purely from personal preference.

To reiterate: there is currently no consensus as to what is the best title here. (For those counting votes who really shouldn't be: there are 34 "supports" and 35 "opposes", making this discussion almost equally split.)

If you have concerns or complaints about this close, feel free to discuss on my talk page. Thanks, (closed by non-admin page mover) Cremastra (talk) 21:38, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Twitter → X (social network) – Before reading this move request, the comments written on the move requests I opened on this article and Twitter under Elon Musk should be read. I am opening this move request for a second and final time given wbm1058's closure of the latter move request two days ago, which is well-articulated and notes that the AP Stylebook no longer requires "X, formerly known as Twitter", as mentioned by an editor here. The New York Times does not mention Twitter unless in reference to an action or statement made prior to July 2023. The strongest argument that opponents of a move have—that Twitter is the common name—is a difficult claim to substantiate, even with fallible Google Trends data. The page notice and WP:COMMONNAME defer to reliable sources. Efforts to move this article in the past were premature. In terms of the claim that the history and cultural impact of Twitter should bear weight, I note that Guaranteed Rate Field is named such, though many continue to refer to the South Side baseball field as Comiskey Park. The use of parentheses in the proposed move target is unfortunate, but Wikipedia does not always decide what products are named. If X was the original name of Twitter, this article would be named appropriately. Threads (social network) is not named P92 or Project 92 because of an aversion of parentheses.

This move request should not cover the status of Twitter under Elon Musk, though discussing a page move if this article is moved would not be improper. As wbm1058 stated, "scope-changing issues are problematic with project guidelines." Consensus would have been solidified if moving Twitter under Elon Musk to X (social network) had not been proposed. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:13, 25 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. FOARP (talk) 07:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong oppose The site that was historically Twitter is still notable on its own and is now dead. Elon made it into a fundamentally different company by gutting the vast majority of staff, very few original employees remain there, so we shouldn't pretend that X is the same company just because the interface is similar. I firmly believe there needs to be either a new article for X, or the "Twitter under Elon Musk" article should be moved to that name and rewritten somewhat. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:26, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I really have to agree here. Twitter before Musk and Twitter after Musk, even if they are the same service, are treated as two very different approaches in social media by reliable sources, and trying to ascribe the things that Musk's X are being criticized for as part of Twitter is very much inappropriate. If RSes are no longer using Twitter, then we should consider Twitter to be a former service and not try to force all of that under the name X. I know that many editors from the move RFC insist that Twitter and X are the same thing from a social media standpoint and thus cannot be split, but this makes it extremely difficult to write about both before and after with any type of clean split. Masem (t) 03:38, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with this, and think three articles are required:

  1. Twitter
  2. X (social network)
  3. Twitter-X transition

  BilledMammal (talk) 18:54, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  There's no consensus for any such arrangement, and a possible split was argued at great length without success over the past few months. The first two topics you mention are the same thing, and this is the overarching article which describes the whole history of that thing. The third one you mention is effectively already covered by the Twitter under Elon Musk article, which details the acquisition process and presumably would be renamed "X under Elon Musk" if this move were to go ahead.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:34, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I disagree with this. The site historically known as Twitter is not dead, it just has a new name. To assert that Twitter and X are somehow different websites or different services would be original research, because absolutely no sources make that claim. X is Twitter, it just changed its branding. Di (they-them) (talk) 07:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Plenty of places noted the (incredibly drastic) change in policy from Twitter to X with a total management shift and a near complete employee turnover. Even if Twitter is going to be primary-redirected to X, there needs to be a new article for X. This should at the very least remain as a "Twitter (2006-2023)" article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Having two separate articles makes sense. We tend to do the same for things like relocated/renamed sports teams, where despite being the "same team" they have distinct articles (e.g., Seattle SuperSonics→Oklahoma City Thunder). ╠╣uw [talk] 14:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The case of Seattle SS and OKC is a separate one, though. OKC established itself as a separate team in 2008 and has made itself into a distinct franchise following years of development. And besides, there is "no consensus that Twitter and X are such radically and fundamentally different products that they should be covered entirely separately". 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 15:20, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Likewise, X not only has a whole new name and branding from Twitter but sharply different leadership/management, culture, and even apparently an upcoming physical relocation. The comparison to how we treat a renamed sports franchise seems increasingly apt. ╠╣uw [talk] 16:11, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I like this analogy and agree. Shotgunheist ^💬 16:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose this narrow move request, as I believe the better path forward is a multi-move / scope change of both the current Twitter and Twitter under Elon Musk articles. As mentioned in the recent no-consensus close of that article's RM: The major problem with this RM was that it implied a scope change to the Twitter article, as, without a scope change to that article it would become a "redundant article fork" of X (social network) [...] That issue could have been solved by making a multiple-move request which also moved Twitter → "Twitter under Jack Dorsey" or a similar title, but it wasn't.

I would support a multi-move / scope change like so:

• Twitter > Twitter, with scope change adopted to describe only the pre-Musk social network.
• Twitter under Elon Musk > X (social network), with scope expansion to fully describe the post-Musk social network.

These are the easiest names for the immediate multi-move. Names of each individual article can be adjusted in subsequent moves, once the scopes are established.

Agree with the users above that there was a fundamental split in the service upon the acquisition by Elon Musk, as covered by reliable sources. The name change AND major ownership/content/moderation/etc. policy changes makes this an easy choice to split the articles.

PK-WIKI (talk) 04:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How would you deal with List of X features and List of Twitter features? If the split is so "fundamental" shouldn't there be an article which compares the feature sets of each? Presumably there is not that much overlap between them? – wbm1058 (talk) 12:19, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Both of those pages seem like unnecessary splits from Twitter, should the above moves be performed and approrpriate content shifted between the two articles. Similarly History of Twitter seems like an unnecessary split if the Twitter article was strictly about pre-Musk Twitter. — Masem (t) 12:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Both of those pages? There is only one article, the other title is a redirect. So then I presume you would re-target List of X features to Twitter under Elon Musk#Appearance and features? Making this change later as a redirect for discussion doesn't feel like the best approach to me. Trying to implement your restructuring piecemeal is going to run into all sorts of resistance. Proposal should be structured as a package which accounts for all the moving parts. I feel like having separate lists of features, with no comparison between them, leaves a gap in coverage. I want to know what the difference between a "tweet" and a "post" is. I think I've heard that while a "tweet" was limited to a small number of characters (hence micro-blogging), a "post" isn't so limited and can be other things? wbm1058 (talk) 12:52, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would appose a piecemeal move approach, I have said before that we really need a reshift of all pages currently about Twitter or X to redistribute content along with appropriate page moves. Mind you there is still a goof glue article Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk that could be used for any summary of major feature changes. Masem (t) 13:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only mention of features in the acquisition article is that Musk "planned to introduce new features to the platform". No mention of feature changes or removals. The brief legacy section at the bottom of that article just reviews financial or general post-acquisition changes, particularly in political POV. I don't think that's the right place for discussing detailed feature changes, though I suppose major changes could be summarized. That particular article feels fairly stable to me, and probably doesn't need to be included in the scope of your restructuring proposal. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:03, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, there might be a better place. But it goes back to that the solution is not these piecemeal moves but to really discuss the content of all these Twitter and X articles and how they should be redistribute and renamed on the basis that the service pre and post Musk are operated very differently and have commentary and criticism specific to each, rather than treating it as a simple continuation and creating these we have now. Masem (t) 14:14, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also: History of the San Francisco Giants, List of San Francisco Giants managers, etc. articles existing alongside New York Giants (baseball) and San Francisco Giants. PK-WIKI (talk) 21:46, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New York Giants all-time roster redirects to San Francisco Giants all-time roster. That shouldn't happen if these are "essentially different entities", they should have separate all-time rosters.

Oddly enough the List of San Francisco Giants managers goes all the way back to the 1800s. Essentially I see New York Giants (baseball) as a subtopic of San Francisco Giants, not a separate and unrelated team. – wbm1058 (talk) 00:34, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moving this page doesn't prevent further discussion about the split proposal. It can be split from either title. The "oppose because I prefer a split" comments on the last RM on this page prevented any consensus from being formed. I'd recommend we focus on whether common usage has shifted here. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 15:47, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this proposed scope change is a bad idea. Having Twitter be a separate article from X (social network) would imply that they are different subjects, which they are not. Di (they-them) (talk) 07:28, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• oppose no new developments never mind substantial ones—blindlynx 14:07, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong oppose there have been no new developments since the last requested move. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 14:53, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong support, it's clear that the COMMONNAME of the company is now X. Not sure why NAMECHANGES allows persons names to change so quickly, while for organization and countries that change their name it's such a pain in the ass. The arguments against the move don't realy make sense either, the website as it stands now is not so different from Twitter that you can say it's an entirely different company.--Ortizesp (talk) 17:13, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  A name change would be easy, but this is a name change PLUS a massive, documented, ownership/culture/feature switch. It's more akin to a sports team relocation. The articles Seattle SuperSonics and Oklahoma City Thunder both exist, despite describing "the same team", to document two separate eras. PK-WIKI (talk) 17:41, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Interesting. "The new team will play under a different nickname. The old Sonics nickname will be reserved for a future NBA team in Seattle. The Sonics' franchise history will be "shared" between the Oklahoma City team and any future Seattle team." Kind of like the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens. So is there a real possibility of Twitter being revived and resurrected at its former URL? wbm1058 (talk) 21:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  While Seattle is hopeful that some day the Sonics might be revived, they'd still have their own separate historical article even if there was no hope. So possible revival doesn't need to be considered for "Twitter".

  See also Seattle Pilots and Milwaukee Brewers, Minnesota North Stars, New York Giants (baseball), etc. PK-WIKI (talk) 21:42, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Another metaphor I'd use is a restaurant changing its management, its name, and most of its chefs while retaining the same location and kitchen appliances. It still wouldn't be considered the same business nonetheless. And now even the location thing is up in the air as they might abandon their HQ. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think you're making false equivalence arguments here, the X staff was the same as Twitter, just reduced in number. It's not like they hired a whole new workforce as one. Business appliances, interface, functionality, users all remained the same. Ortizesp (talk) 14:10, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't really see a massive ownership/featureshift. Ownership is different obviously, and that will change the culture, but that happens with tons and tons of ownership changes. Ortizesp (talk) 01:28, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Going by news articles, the name is now "X (formerly known as Twitter)". When the parenthetical part is dropped readers have no idea WTF the authors are talking about, because "X" is a terrible brand that nobody knows about. –jacobolus (t) 01:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. The situation remains largely as it was at the time of the May 2024 RM discussion. Twitter and X are so substantially different as social media websites/applications that shoehorning all of it under X inhibits the encyclopedia's educational purpose. This is not as simple as a "name change" as a human might go through while remaining an obvious continuity of self. With X, the features are different, the experience is different—it amounts to a different topic.
  I would support something lie the mult-move/scope change that PK-WIKI suggests, as it's along the lines of the Viacom (2005–2019) and Viacom (1952–2005) precedent that remains a good model for this editors on this topic to follow. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 22:50, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Viacom (1952–2005) was split into the second incarnations of CBS Corporation and Viacom. Twitter was split into X and... what other entity? Seems a bad analogy.

  ViacomCBS was renamed to Paramount Global but there was no need for separate articles about each. – wbm1058 (talk) 00:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Bruce Jenner the decathlete changed his name without changing his "features"? Sorry, should stick to finding corporate comparisons; people are a step too far off base. wbm1058 (talk) 01:12, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Don't deadname or misgender Caitlyn Jenner. I encourage you to strike and correct your comment, as bigotry is disruptive. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 06:27, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong oppose I'm at a loss for words. The previous two successive RMs just closed after more than three months of discussion. This is now the tenth RM to move "Twitter" to "X" since the rebranding last year. It will likely be years before "Twitter" and its related terms, such as tweet (an actual dictionary word), cease to be widely recognizable to the general audience because of its decades-long history and cultural impact. I see many reliable sources that continue to affix "formerly known as Twitter" to mentions of X — including Musk himself as recently as this month. Several months ago, a CNN report delved into "why we can't stop X 'Twitter'". Even the Supreme Court is calling it "Twitter" because this is what it was known [as] during the vast majority of the events underlying this suit — it's the same situation here, except we're talking a Wikipedia article instead of a lawsuit. In other words, the vast majority of this article relates to the history of Twitter when it was known as Twitter. If we apply the ten-year test, are readers likely to recognize "Twitter" or "X" more? In addition to COMMONNAME, we must also consider WP:NATURAL — as noted by the nominator, "Twitter" is more natural than "X", which requires a cumbersome parenthetical disambiguation that is more than double the length of "Twitter". The Threads comparison isn't valid because (1) Threads was never commonly known as "Project 92", which was an internal codename unknown to most readers; (2) Threads has always been known as Threads, and the nominator is correct that if Twitter were named X from the start we would have gone with that, but that isn't the case here; and (3) NATURAL specifically states that ... alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title, emphasis added. There was a clear absence of consensus in the previous RM, and a change in the AP Stylebook isn't going to meaningfully change that. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:44, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. The only policy we need to consider here is WP:NAMECHANGES. "Sometimes the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, we give extra weight to independent, reliable, English-language sources ("reliable sources" for short) written after the name change. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match." It is fairly clear (and I don't think even disputed by those in opposition) that reliable sources now use the term "X" for this network. Sure, many are currently still appending "formerly known as Twitter" so that readers who haven't yet been aware of the switch know what they're talking about. But the first and subsequent mentions are always X. See [1] for just one of many examples. The assertion that Twitter and X are somehow different sites is also not remotely borne out by reliable sources, and the RM at Twitter under Elon Musk, proposing a split, failed to gain traction for exactly that reason - while various policies at the company have changed under Musk's stewardship, the site is fundamentally the same as the historic Twitter, with much the same user base. It is not a brand new site, and no reliable sources say otherwise. That's it, really. Wikipedia naming policy mandates us to make this move (as indeed it did for other long-term historic and much-loved names which were changed over the years such as Sears Tower and Hotmail), and the above oppose votes seem to be mainly WP:IDONTLIKEIT or WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, having no basis in either policy or evidence from sources.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:24, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per Amakuru and WP:NAMECHANGES. 'X' is becoming the commonname, and people are now aware of its usage. 'Twitter' was named for short tweets, but now the concept has grown to include videos and other longer forms of communication, so, relevantly, even the initial meaning has changed. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:24, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That there was a well-known service named Twitter, named for its iconic 140-character tweets, would seem to indicate the need for a past-tense historic Wikipedia article about the notable subject that was renamed and its major features changed/discontinued during a corporate acquisition. The WP:COMMONNAME for that article would be "Twitter". Much like our articles for Vine (service) and Periscope (service). PK-WIKI (talk) PK-WIKI (talk) 15:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, which is a shift from my opposition in prior RMs. There are plenty of sources now using the term "X" first and in headlines to refer to the platform ("formerly Twitter" remains common in these articles though): NYT, Rolling Stone, Newsweek. The evidence suggests that "X" on its own is now an equivalently common name to Twitter, and per WP:NAMECHANGES, it makes sense to give preference to the new name. I'm not sure opening another RM right after the last one closed was a great move here, but I agree the evidence supports the move now. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 15:47, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  As a reminder to those pointing out that "formerly Twitter" is still common, policy doesn't require us to prove the old name is no longer a common name for the subject, just that the new one is also a common name for the subject. Preference should tilt towards the current name if it is in common usage; this can take time (and the lack of evidence it had happened led me to oppose prior RMs), but it now appears to be the case that X is a common name, even if Twitter is still in use as a name. People still say Sears Tower and AT&T Park, for instance. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 18:55, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Policy also says titles should be WP:NATURAL if possible, even if less common. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support based on above users, though would also support "X (formerly Twitter)" as many sources seem to include that as well. JSwift49 12:15, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong support - The merits of the new brand name have replaced Twitter. Per NAMECHANGES, the time for everyone to adapt the new brand is expected to be shorter. Ahri Boy (talk) 12:19, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support X is clearly the WP:COMMONNAME now Isla🏳️‍⚧ 00:44, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose: These discussions are getting ridiculous. We just a few days ago saw the previous discussion related to this "issue" end. Twitter is by far the common name. It was its name for twenty years. "X" is not its legitimate name in the eyes of 95% percent of people and reliable sources still consistently refer to the app as Twitter, or at least add "(formerly Twitter)" after speaking of the app's name. And that consensus is very unlikely to ever change, though not impossible. λ NegativeMP1 02:24, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I refuted that reliable sources refer to the app as Twitter in the move request. The AP Styleguide no longer recommends "X, formerly known as Twitter" unless the article concerns Twitter prior to July 2023. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:54, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You didn't refute anything? Reliable sources that aren't the New York Times still exist that refer to Twitter as Twitter and only Twitter. And while there's too many sources for me to list that do this, I can assure you that every time I have checked a source that references the site, it is typically worded as Twitter or "X, formerly known as Twitter" or something similar. My opinion remains the same. λ NegativeMP1 03:42, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  AP Style is widely used, but it is not the supreme authority on style. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Support: X (Social Network) would absolutely be the accurate name for this article. EarthDude (talk) 05:27, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support The site is already commonly referred to by its new name. While the old name lingers, the new name is widely used. In the presence of two common names it only makes sense to go with the official one. There is hardly anyone left who is not aware of the change, so keeping the old name most certainly violates the priciple of least surprise. It is unfortunate that some people cling to the past of this platform, but this vocal minority has to come to terms with reality at some point. And I can hardly believe that there are people to whome the statements like "European Union is considering to ban Twitter" make more sense then "European Union is considering to ban X". — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 05:38, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  In the presence of two common names it only makes sense to go with the official one. This isn't correct. If both names are equally common, we should go with the one that is more WP:NATURAL and WP:PRECISE. The five WP:CRITERIA always trumps WP:OFFICIALNAME. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. Does anyone actually call it X without also pointing out that it was formerly Twitter? -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:27, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  ...Yes, and significantly more often than they did when the platform was first renamed. Steel1943 (talk) 20:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ordinary humans call the service "Twitter". News articles published by corporations who don't want to be sued call the service "X (formerly known as Twitter)". –jacobolus (t) 01:27, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources). Nowhere does the naming guidelines say "ordinary humans". Wikipedia operates on reliable sources, not what you think ordinary humans use. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 03:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, keep in mind that the subject of the article is a social network that is owned by X Corp., a different company from Twitter Inc., the then-owner of Twitter, the then-network that is now… X. The use of the new name is more commonly used in RS, as others have pointed out; however I would not oppose an alternative title X (Twitter) if it means we can achieve WP:CONCISE.

𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 15:54, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, since X is progressively becoming the common name in RS, the talk page’s warning is almost inapplicable and should be deleted if the article is moved. Finally, many users mention moving Twitter under Elon Musk to X (social network). Before such a change happens, though, we may need an extensive discussion regarding whether or not the change of staff, the logo, and other changes warrants a separate article. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 23:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. To me it seems like this means it should be a separate article, as the ownership has changed so significantly. Shotgunheist ^💬 02:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was already a lengthy discussion about this. Per the closer, there is no consensus that Twitter and X are such radically and fundamentally different products that they should be covered entirely separately. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support and create a new article on the history of twitter, prior to it becoming X. Its a distinctly different service now, and this article refers to the new, distinctly different service. DarmaniLink (talk) 13:18, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Oppose: We've been through this song and dance 10 other times, it's obvious there isn't a consensus on if "X" is so wildly adapted that we'll change the name. Twitter is still the most common name and is still notable, why else would every news article refer to it as Twitter LittleMAHER1 (talk) 13:32, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - The named changed and so should the article. I see a lot of sources calling it X formerly known as Twitter and that's enough to show it’s gotten a lot more traction. The fact that the platform has changed a lot since it was called Twitter doesn't really matter here. PackMecEng (talk) 14:17, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per WP:NAMECHANGES. When an individual changes their name, pronouns, gender identity, we're always quick to implement those changes here. Can't see why the same cannot be applied to companies and organizations. Not to mention that X and its logo is now frequently used online to refer to this website. Incidentally I opposed the change in title in one of the previous RMs but I think now is the time to follow suit and move this page. Keivan.f^Talk 21:49, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Kanye West? InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That is totally different. He might have changed his name to Ye, but you would still find his profile on Spotify and other platforms under the name 'Kanye West'. So the subject himself is still using his former legal name. Keivan.f^Talk 15:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. Nothing has changed in the month since the last RM was rejected. —pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 22:12, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Agree 100%. How WOKE do you have to be to believe the article should still be titled "Twitter"? Face it--we have X now, not Twitter, and the heat death of the universe will come before that changes. 66.44.113.139 (talk) 23:12, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Could you provide an actual input on the conversation either supporting or opposing the evidence provided above instead of using a meaningless buzzword? λ NegativeMP1 23:24, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Could you grow a pair and converse like a normal human being rather than resorting to snide, passive-aggressive commenting? 66.44.113.139 (talk) 02:39, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Based on your previous messages on this topic describing Wikipedia as whatever your definition of "woke" is (1) and disregarding people using official English Wikipedia policies as to why they thought it shouldn't be changed as Musk "triggering" them (2), its hard for me to tell whether or not you are worth "growing a pair" over. λ NegativeMP1 04:21, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I also agree with changing the name from Twitter to X (Social Network), but how is that related in any way to being woke??? EarthDude (talk) 16:43, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support I concur with what Amakuru wrote. Also I agree with the observation that many of the oppose votes seem to mostly be WP:IDONTLIKEIT or WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. The page should be moved to X (social network). BlueShirtz (talk) 00:01, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong oppose - this whole discussion is ridiculous. If you want an X (social network) article, your chance was during the multi-month move discussion to move Twitter under Elon Musk → X (social network). You blew it. This Twitter page's name won't be changing. 2605:B100:12C:7570:95A8:511:79AF:CEA9 (talk) 02:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Per Amakuru and WP:NAMECHANGES. I was honestly surprised when I came to this page and saw it still hadn't been updated to the new name. This name change has been widely accepted by reliable sources. Many articles will add the "formerly known as Twitter" once before switching to using X for the rest of the article. I came to this article after the recent news broke that X was suspended in Brazil. I went through all the top sources for this story from Google and here is what I found. These sources still add "formerly known as Twitter" after the first mention of X: BBC, CBS, Forbes, and NBC News. These sources only bring up Twitter later in the article, often when discussing the history of this story: AP, ABC, NY Times, The Guardian, France24, Fortune, Al Jazeera, The Washington Post, and CNBC. These sources didn't mention Twitter at all: CBC and Reuters. None of the sources I found are still calling it Twitter, they are using the new name of X. I understand this change has been proposed many times, but the situation has changed significantly from the first proposal. Now the reliable sources have adopted the official name change and per WP:NAMECHANGES, so should we. --Pithon314 (talk) 03:40, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support X is a common name by now. It should mentionned in the lead that is was formerly known as Twitter, as a lot of RS say, but X is a WP:COMMONNAME. Unfortunate that some people oppose's votes revolve around "previous votes failed so this one should too", I don't think we should use that. The website has drastically changed now and fully uses X, including with x.com. I do agree that we should stop always proposing that move though. win8x (talking | spying) 05:12, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I also like what Amakuru is saying about sites such as Hotmail -> Outlook.com. I think most people here can agree that Twitter was a much better name, but X is pretty common at this point, and what Twitter/X users prefer is irrelevant. No RS uses Twitter exclusively. I feel kind of bad for going against consensus, but pardon me. win8x (talking | spying) 05:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong support What is Twitter, anyway? It’s what was, not what is. It is not the official name, nor is it the name most people use (in my experience). Many new users don’t even know what Twitter was. But everybody who cares about X knows it is called X. It is high time we change the name.

Mstf221 (talk) 12:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose Makes more sense to keep this page describing the social network that existed from 2006 to 2022/3, and then create a new article or move Twitter under Elon Musk to something like 'X (social network)' Averkf (talk) 13:22, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose I know X is the common and official name of the website at this point, but there are still a lot of outlets out there to this day that tend to call it "X (formerly Twitter)" or "X, formerly known as Twitter", so the Twitter name isn't really dead yet. Maybe a compromise like JSwift49 suggested can work. MushroomMan674 (talk) 14:13, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Or maybe, since X Corp. is technically a brand new company from Twitter, Inc., maybe there should be two separate pages for Twitter and X? Just throwing it out there. MushroomMan674 (talk) 14:18, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support . No confusion anymore. Web-julio (talk) 17:31, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose same arguments from before without any evidence of any change and none of the concerns in previous RM—because Common name is not the most important article titling criteria—have not been addressed still. Traumnovelle (talk) 18:54, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This argument doesn't really align with the way the policy is written, or indeed longstanding precedent. WP:COMMONNAME says that we "generally [prefer] the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above". It then instructs us that "When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly". So if it can be demonstrated that a particular name is indeed the most commonly used, then in the majority of cases it is unnecessary to look directly at the five naming WP:CRITERIA, which are in any case much more subjective and harder to evaluate than common usage. WP:NAMECHANGES further expands on this by urging us to give much higher priority to recetn sources in the case where the name has changed.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Generally doesn't mean always. The new name is less recognisable, less natural because people will put all sorts of things such as X (website), and WP:NATDIS supports an alternate name like Twitter over a parenthetical disambiguator. Traumnovelle (talk) 01:25, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If "Common name is not the most important article titling criteria", what are the criteria here which should override it? Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 21:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  See above. Traumnovelle (talk) 01:25, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. This is just bludgeoning the process. Twitter still is, and will remain, the common name. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 08:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak oppose, Twitter is still known and widely used name, although the name of the company was changed. Karol739 (talk) 14:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. Think about twitter.com, which was a valid domain from 2006 to May 2024. Not to mention the impact that Twitter the brand name itself has had on the world. There should be only two consensuses in a argument like this: keep it as it is, or split it into two different articles. Lekvwa (talk) 16:17, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong oppose, Twitter remains the common (conversational) name of the social media platform now officially called X. Therefore, changing the article name from Twitter to X may cause confusion and would go against WP:COMMONNAME. Otherwise no notable changes since last discussion, as LilianaUwU states this is a simple matter of bludgeoning. CMDR Quillon (talk) 16:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose Someone above said that the only policy we need to consider is WP:NAMECHANGES. Really, that is just a single subsection of WP:TITLE, which at its beginning lists five criteria for a good title. Our whole purpose in this discussion is choosing the best title for this article. The criteria are as follows, and for each I will give my opinion on whether "X (social network)" is a better Y for that criterion than "Twitter", or not better N.
  Recognizability.N The subject of this article existed under the name Twitter for some 17 years. It has been called X for just over a year. I presume there are many more who would recognize "Twitter" but not "X (social media)" than the other way around. This could definitely change in the future.
  NaturalnessN, which is given as The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English. I remind us that "X" is not the proposed title, because X is taken by the letter X. The proposed title is "X (social network)", with that parenthetical disambiguation, making it a clunky three words. In my opinion it wouldn't be more natural to search for "X (social network)" than "Twitter". You might say, "well, they would just search for X", but it's still less likely that they would easily find the article. An additional indication of what people are actually calling it in English: an analysis of thousands of marketing emails reports "One year later: Why 89% of brands still call it Twitter despite the rebrand to X".
  PrecisionN, given as The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects. "X (social network)" is unambiguous because of the parenthetical disambiguation, so the titles are equal in distinctiveness. However, in the Precision section of the page, WP:NATDIS and WP:PARENDIS tell us that if there is a sufficiently common alternative name, we should use it. I don't think there's a question as to whether "Twitter" is sufficiently common.
  ConcisionN, given as The title is no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects. Clearly, "Twitter" wins over "X (social network)" here.
  Consistency?, The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. There are many other pages with the name "Twitter" in them which might be made confusing or clunky if we replace every instance of "Twitter" with "X" or "X (social network)". HenryMP02 (talk) 18:34, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The policy at WP:COMMONNAME clearly says that we only evaluate the individual "criteria" if there isn't a clear and obvious common name. NAMECHANGES also makes this point,. that we use the name favoured by recent reliable sources... and it's fairly convincingly been shown that they mostly use "X" (occasionally with a "formerly known as Twitter" appended, but this doesn't change that they used X as the main name). Your subjective analysis of the criteria is neither required nor useful here.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It does not say that. In WP:COMMONNAME, I think you might have interpreted that from the sentence: When there is no single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by these sources, editors should reach a consensus as to which title is best by considering these criteria directly. But "Not A, then B" does not imply "A, then not B" (see Denying the antecedent). If we go back a sentence, Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's official name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used...as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above. (emphasis added)

  Generally is not always. We generally choose the most common name in reliable sources because it is generally is the best title. There are cases where we choose names that are not the most commonly used in sources, because those are not the best title. The five criteria help us make that determination.

  Lastly, I don't think it is unquestionably obvious that "X" is the COMMONNAME. Check out Patar Knight's comment. And things are still muddier than that, because proposed title is not "X", but "X (social network)". HenryMP02 (talk) 18:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Not sure how the previous discussion regarding the name changed has been resulted differently, but per WP:NAMECHANGES, It is already happened a year ago and most of reliable sources are using "X" instead (along with phrase "formerly known as Twitter" in parentheses). To settle the discussion, the page could be just moved to "X" with more emphasis regarding "Twitter" as the "former name and still commonly known" in parentheses and hatnote. 103.111.100.82 (talk) 00:00, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment – Culture Crave: "Even Elon Musk still calls the app Twitter" InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:50, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  And so what? Jõsé ^hola 04:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMECHANGES. 'X' is clearly used as primary name in the media, while 'Twitter' is mentioned as its former name (see how do the BBC, CNN and Deutsche Welle report about the recent block in Brazil). People should divorce their emotions from the fact that 'Twitter' that they used to know no longer exists because you can literally do whatever you want in today's world if you have money. Wikipedia isn't the place to right great wrongs committed in the business world. Additionally, this name change has exactly the same legal effect as when countries change their names. There are people who still use 'Swaziland' or 'Burma' even though those two are former names of the respective countries.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:20, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  For better or for worse, Wikipedia only renamed its Burma article in 2015, well after Myanmar did so in 1989. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Patar knight: That comparison wouldn't matter IMO to say, it did not take Wikipedia long to rename North Macedonia and Eswatini while Turkiye remain contested. Articles are renamed based on popularity of usage and acceptability, not time of use. Jõsé ^hola 04:20, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  To be less flippant, obviously each article is judged according to the criteria at WP:TITLE. I just thought it was interesting that Burma was cited when Wikipedia's slow adoption of that title reflected the reality that the English-speaking world was also slow in adopting the new official name. Sometimes things go quickly like Eswatini and North Macedonia and sometimes things take a long time. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 04:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Patar knight: I live in 'Macedonia' and call my country by that name even though it was changed more than five years ago. So do most of the people in my country and that name is prevalent in reliable sources in the Macedonian language after the name change took effect, which is the main reason why the article on the Macedonian Wikipedia is still titled 'Macedonia' and will probably remain for good per the Macedonian equivalent of WP:COMMONNAME. I also routinely use the name 'Twitter' for the social network now known as 'X' and will probably do it forever, but I can't deny the fact that 'X' is the name that already prevails in reliable sources in the English language (to be more specific, 'X, formerly known as Twitter' is the most widely used wording). The main difference compared to the case of 'Macedonia' is that 'Twitter', albeit still being the preferred name in use by ordinary people, is no longer prevalent in reliable sources. We can find zillion cultural and social reasons why people still prefer 'Twitter' over 'X', but what people use colloquially in everyday life is not a reliable source in line with our policies. So, calling it 'Twitter' when it's actually 'X' in reliable sources in the English language makes Wikipedia vulnerable to criticism and defamation.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. Twitter is clearly the WP:COMMONNAME. --Tataral (talk) 15:25, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per HenryMP04. BilledMammal (talk) 18:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - natural disambiguation and recognizability Red Slash 19:12, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose for the various reasons already elaborated above. I think PK-WIKI's comparison above to a relocated sports team is particularly apt: despite something like the Seattle SuperSonics and the Oklahoma City Thunder being the "same team", they're sufficiently distinct that we treat the two iterations separately. The sharp break in name, brand, culture, leadership, etc. between Twitter and X mandates a similar approach here. ╠╣uw [talk] 13:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - clearly the common name now (just read the New York Times, or any other outlet; they just say "X" now instead of "X, formerly known as Twitter" as was done previously). Furthermore rebrandings are not sufficient reason for creating a new article or holding onto a previous one indefinitely. E.g. "Meta" is hardly the same company as it was when TheFaceBook Inc. was run out of Zuckerberg's college apartment, but we have an article on "Meta Platforms" wherein the first sentence mentions its previous names. No need for a separate article, or refusing to move the article upon its corporate rebranding. TocMan (talk) 16:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak support: It truly is getting to a point these days where "X" is becoming the more common name for this subject instead of "Twitter". Seeing the phrase "X, formerly known as Twitter" in reference to this subject does not happen nearly as often as it did when the platform was first renamed. Steel1943 (talk) 20:08, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support: Simply put, Twitter is dead. —theMainLogan (t•c) 22:03, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support as usual with these perennial move requests we are being held back by a bunch of people who keep invoking WP:COMMONNAME without having actually read that page. That page clearly advises us to use "commonly recognisable names" as opposed to official or otherwise overly formal names. It is not relevant to the question of whether the title of the article about Elon Musk's dead bird app should be "X" or "Twitter" as both of these are "commonly recognisable names". The difference between them is that one of them is a current name and the other is historical, therefore, we should move the article... it really is that simple. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 22:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Except "X" is not the name we would move this page to. "X (social network)" is. It isn't favorable to switch to a name that requires parenthetical disambiguation when we already have a well-established, naturally disambiguated name. This is based on policy - WP:NATURAL. Unfortunately not so simple. HenryMP02 (talk) 00:05, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The answer is even more ambiguous than you are insinuating, neither NATURAL, nor NAMECHANGEs, nor COMMONNAME take preference over each other. We have to arbitrarily decide which is more right, which is why these discussions are so heated. We can't just lean on NATURAL like you're implying. Ortizesp (talk) 02:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Definitely. There’s no ultimate policy that trumps the others in this conversation. I put my thoughts (based on each of the 5 WP:TITLE criteria) in an opinion above. HenryMP02 (talk) 02:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The difference between the two is that one is a natural and simple title and the other requires two extra words and parentheses for the title. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:28, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Good grief. Let me get some initial thoughts out of the way, which I will try to put aside for the sake of this RM (since they're not grounded in policy or guidelines):
  • I think renaming Twitter (that is, the actual website) to X was a terrible idea and should be reverted (preferably whenever it leaves Elon Musk's hands). In addition, I personally tend to use "Twitter" instead of "X" in conversation, mainly for clarity's sake (though this may change over time).
  • I am more receptive to renaming articles as a result of official name changes than the wiki tends to be.

Anyway, based on trends as listed above, our refusal to call the article "X" (with disambiguation, of course) comes off as antiquating more than anything. With the AP style guide calling for de-emphasis on the name "Twitter", I think calling the article "X" fits better in an encyclopedic register. And as much as I try to push for WP:NATURAL in some cases, going out of our way to keep an old name to avoid the need for disambiguation feels unnatural.

As for the repeated requests: why do I get the feeling that if we do decide to call this article "X", the repeated move requests will stop or at least slow down? If the move request goes through and we end up getting a bunch of requests to change the name back to Twitter, then I will eat my words. But if this turns out like how no one has seriously requested that the infobox on Stanley Kubrick be removed since an RfC determined that one should be placed after years of back-and-forth over whether to add one, then perhaps the move is proper after all. I suppose WP:NOTCRYSTALBALL and all, but I can't quite shake this feeling.

So, uh, support, I guess. I also agree with what Amakuru, TocMan, and filelakeshoe said above. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 01:59, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose largely per HenryMP02's analysis. I will also copy what I wrote in one of the earlier RMs which is relevant here as well: Two recent [July 2024] YouGov polls found that in the US and UK respectively, the portion of the general adult population that still uses "Twitter" versus "X" or both is: 49-13-18 and 69-5-12, with the remainder not sure. Among users of the site, it leans more in favour of "Twitter" than the general population at 55-19-21 and 79-6-15 respectively. [2][3] Based on these polls, it seems at least fair to say that for a plurality of our readers "Twitter" is still the most recognizable name. In respect to reliable sources, while the usage of "formerly known as Twitter" has dropped, many still use it (e.g. BBC), and many still refer to the site as Twitter [4][5][6][7][8] ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 02:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Also to add on to this, it seems that peer-reviewed academic sources as seen in a non-scientific analysis using the search option on WP:LIBRARY seems to favour "Twitter". For papers published in 2024 a search for: "Elon Musk" "social media" that excludes "Twitter" yields 16 results, of which only one appears to discuss the website in any detail (in the context of xAI's Grok chatbot). Including Twitter gives 86 results, most of which are obviously about the website. Of course there is the possibility that X is widely used in academia, but not in a way that can be searched (which again, points to the shortcomings of "X" as a name and a title). These results may also have been affected by the fact that the topics/data/research used/focused on in these papers were from before the name change. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 05:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong support Since none of the earlier request was completed, it now makes much sense that another consensus has to be reached, especially given that it's now 4 months since the acquisition and renaming. Personally, I am surprised the requested move was not achieved, the social network is now known as X with most sources now referring to it as X (formerly known as Twitter).Jõsé ^hola 04:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Came to this discussion from trying to perform another user's requested move of TweetDeck to X Pro and discovering that X-related name changes are controversial. Using the current name of the service consistently across the board to refer to it in the present day and updating the article(s) to reflect any needed context about the change in ownership or changes from when it was called Twitter seems consistent with WP:NAMECHANGES. Onyxqk (talk) 21:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong oppose. As per PK-WIKI, I would support two articles: Twitter (for historic social media platform) and X (for Twitter under Musk). Seems the best way to retain relevant info without diluting/changing scope.Lewisguile (talk) 15:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong oppose per henrymp02. Another move discussion after so many is borderline WP:BADGERING. -1ctinus📝🗨 18:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Very strong oppose The common name is still Twitter, even the name X is too ambigous for us and would be prone to lawsuit. Does not need for the page move for next 5 or 10 years. 114.125.235.203 (talk) 18:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - Should the articles of social media that Twitter is currently and move page article to X (social network) it will became soon? Andre Farfan (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Pardon me Andre but what did you sayyy? 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 03:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. COMMONNAME is not about what the general public uses to refer to something. COMMONNAME is about what reliable sources use to refer to the subject. I have seen no evidence that the common name in reliable sources is not X now. What the public uses to refer to something outside of reliable sources is irrelevant and !votes that do not address the mountain of evidence regarding reliable sources using the name X need to be ignored or downweighted to oblivion as they are not in compliance with the applicable guideline. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 03:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Votes that don't focus on a specific and not even the most important part of our article titling policy should be ignored, really? Traumnovelle (talk) 05:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Quite bluntly, yes. Because there has been no evidence that it doesn't meet any of the 5 actual criteria whatsoever, so we fall back on things like COMMONNAME to decide. The only two of the 5 actual criteria in question are the first two - recognizability and naturalness. X has been referred to either by X (on its own) or X (formerly Twitter) in reliable sources for the better part of a year now. The website domains and apps are all titled X now. So it's obviously recognizable. Secondly, naturalness - people may still search for Twitter, yes, but there's equally likely to be people searching for X (social network) that expect to be shown this article. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | me | talk to me! 05:26, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Except the proposed title isn't X it is X (social network).

  >but there's equally likely to be people searching for X (social network) that expect to be shown this article

  Do you truely believe people are going to search with a parenthetical disambiguator? Traumnovelle (talk) 06:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose for similar reasons to Lewisguile. --SHB2000 (talk) 12:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. A lot of searches use the addition of Twitter. – The Grid (talk) 12:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Oppose. There only big problem I see is that there's a lot of articles that refer to the site, in the narrow temporal context of the updates in question, by the old name as it was used at the time. I'm not opposed to moving the article itself to current name (and keeping redirects and mentioning the old name in the lead), but I'm not sure if updating every single past mention in Wikipedia is worth the effort and it could be detrimental to understanding the historical context. wwwwolf (barks/growls) 17:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Oppose - The ownership change seems to be so significant between X Corp. and Twitter, Inc., that even with the similar functionality remaining with the app, X may refer to something uniquely different. I oppose only if there is not a possibility of an article split where both Twitter and X can co-exist. The combined history can be added to History of Twitter if it isn't already present. Shotgunheist ^💬 17:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support, I think it's probably time at this point. Cloaker416 (talk) 04:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose, the Twitter related discussions have been going on since May 2024, and I think a six month pause on moving Twitter related articles is sound. Also, it's still common for people to use and search Twitter. Additionally, WP:NATDAB (natural disambiguation) comes into play. It means that its preferable to use a term without a parenetical disambiguator if that is at least sometimes used. That's why it's titled elevator and not lift (machine), lift (device), etc and because lift has no primary topic. Therefore, Twitter sounds more natural than X (social network). The proposed title is also longer than the current one. Maybe the social network gets more views than the letter, but long term significance and WP:RECENTISM applies. JuniperChill (talk) 23:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment For those !voting "per COMMONNAME", please remember that COMMONNAME is merely one of the many criteria we consider when deciding on an article's name. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong oppose In addition to being a much, much less common name, there's also simply the fact that this is likely very temporary, and even the site's owner calls it 'Twitter' on occasion, showing the branding change is still as half-hearted as it ever was. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 01:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose, still very much Twitter as per WP:COMMONNAME, and the fact that sources still frequently refer to it as such. —Locke Cole • t • c 06:52, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose Not this song and dance again. X is not the WP:COMMONNAME for this social media, and Twitter is still widely used. Even Musk still calls it Twitter. So, per this, and all the arguments made in the previous requests, no, it is too early for this mofe.Melmann 08:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support WP:RS are all calling the site X, sometimes with the note that it was formerly Twitter. I think most opposes are letting their personal dislike of Elon Musk get in the way of seeing what reliable sources are calling the website. Gazingo (talk) 18:42, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support About WP:COMMONNAME, I would refer to the Willis Tower as a precedent. Although many people have not adopted the new name, and possibly never will, the tower was renamed by its legitimate owners and the new name was adopted for formal and official use, including in the media. Furthermore and sadly, many arguments here are leaning on petty politics prejudice, i.e. left-leaning calling 'Elon' by first name as a bad actor, like if the company owner had somehow significantly altered its user base and contents, or right-leaning calling Wikipedia a 'woke' platform because resisting the change, etc. I think such arguments should be ignored, it could take ages to reach consensus otherwise. Matthieu Houriet (talk) 05:44, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support, "X" is no longer that uncommon in everyday language; its URL was recently changed to X.com. I don't see a good reason to retain the name "Twitter" just because some people might still be used to it here on WP. The rebranding is somewhat comparable to Facebook's transition to Meta. –Tobias (talk) 10:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Facebook was never rebranded, so don't really see how it's comparable. Nobody is suggesting to merge X Corp. to Twitter, Inc. (or vice versa) as far as I'm aware. Alpha3031 (t • c) 09:32, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Support First and foremost, X is the official platform's new name. Wikipedia’s policies emphasize that articles should reflect the current, official names of organizations, and in this case, the platform has rebranded itself under this new moniker. Continuing to title the article "Twitter" would create a disconnect between the company's actual name and its representation on Wikipedia, misleading users who expect the most up-to-date and accurate information. While some users may still refer to it as "Twitter" out of habit, "X" has quickly become the official name in the media, on the app stores, and across legal documents. Major publications and institutions now recognize and refer to the platform as "X." Wikipedia should not lag behind these global developments but rather stay in line with how the platform is now understood and recognized. Any argument opposing such a change is simply illogical. ScottSullivan01 (talk) 21:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  WP:UCRN actually states, "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's official name as an article title" but instead prefers to go with what's commonly used. (And as noted, people — including Musk himself — still say Twitter.) ╠╣uw [talk] 23:03, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia is supposed to lag behind, it is an encyclopaedia. Traumnovelle (talk) 03:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia’s policies emphasize that articles should reflect the current, official names of organizations – It most certainly does not. InfiniteNexus (talk) 07:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - This is ridiculous. Having the same exact discussion every few months despite nothing changing is a waste of time. Twitter is the name that is primarily associated with the website both now and historically. This is unlikely to change any time soon. Continuously restarting this discussion is the very definition of WP:BLUDGEONING. Di (they-them) (talk) 07:38, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support It's just like if somebody changes their name. For example, if Chevy Chase would change his name to Christopher Chase and his social media and stuff like that, the Wikipedia arcticle would be changed to 'Christopher Chase'. I think this Twitter-X name change is very stupid, but still, it's about the officality of things. Twitter is now X, just like how Princess Auto Stadium, the home of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers was called IG Field until earlier this year, and since it got a new name, the arcticle was changed into 'Princess Auto Stadium'. Leikstjórinn (talk) 10:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia does not necessarily change titles just because an official name is changed. We still use the title Kanye West, for example, because that is the name that is most well-known. Di (they-them) (talk) 07:25, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose, for the same reasons as InfiniteNexus and HenryMP02. Further, I don't feel that much has changed since the last RM; let's please not keep holding new RMs while editors increasingly tune out. DFlhb (talk) 13:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]