Talk:Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria

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WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS The article Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are: Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period) Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned. Remedy instructions and exemptions Enforcement procedures: Violations of any restrictions (excluding 1RR/reverting violations) and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Violations of revert restrictions should be reported to the administrators' edit warring noticeboard. Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense. An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned. With respect to any reverting restrictions: Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion. Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism. Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction. Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 February 2014 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for merging with Human rights in Rojava on 27 March 2016. The result of the discussion was not moved.

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Discussions: RM, Syrian Kurdistan → Rojava, Moved, 18 January 2015, Discussion RM, Democratic Federation of Northern Syria → Rojava, No consensus to move, 25 April 2018, Discussion RM, Democratic Federation of Northern Syria → Northern and Eastern Syria, Not moved, 17 January 2019, Discussion RM, Democratic Federation of Northern Syria → Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, Moved to Rojava, 28 February 2019, Discussion RM, Rojava → North and East Syria, Not moved, 14 October 2019, Discussion RM, Rojava → Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, Moved, 30 June 2020, Discussion

There is a factoid in the article that says (government?) salaries in the AANES are double that of surrounding communities. "The AANES has by far the highest average salaries and standard of living throughout Syria, with salaries being twice as large as in regime-controlled Syria; following the collapse of the Syrian pound the AANES doubled salaries to maintain inflation, and allow for good wages."

This is a strong claim, with no citation to back it up, and no citation needed tag attached to the claim. Djcart137 (talk) 21:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was added to the article in this revision from 2021 by user Des Vallee. Sisuvia (talk) 11:19, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On December 12, 2023, the region adopted an updated version of their 2014 Social Contract and changed their name to the Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria.

I've never done edits to Wikipedia before, much less large-scale ones, what sort of resources are needed to prove and cite the change and to edit the main page with the updated information? Mayaman2 (talk) 12:39, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think all you'll need to do is provide an (reputable) article that mentions the amended 2023 social contract, as well as citing the new social contract itself. Remikipedia (talk) 05:19, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey all. Reading over this article now, I'm concerned that too much text is being devoted to history prior to the establishment of the AANES. In the history section, half(!) of the entire text is discussing pre-AANES history. It uses almost 1,500 words to go over the entire history of the region, dating back thousands of years, often with an unclear relation to the AANES. Most of the cited sources were written years, sometimes even decades, before the AANES was established, so it's hard to establish how much of this has a direct connection to the AANES and what is just patent synth.

This isn't limited to the history section either. The demographics section begins with a few long paragraphs about historical demographic changes that go back centuries! Again, many of the citations are to sources written before the AANES was established, so the connection of this information to the subject is difficult to establish.

By my estimation, this kind of over-contextualisation based on old sources takes up almost 25% of this article's text. I think a lot of this text could be cut, or at least greatly reduced, in order to keep it focused on the subject of the article. We should also be sticking to sources about the AANES, so we can establish a clear connection between the earlier history of the region and this polity. I'm happy to attend to this once I'm done with some ongoing projects, just wanted to raise this issue here in case anyone else is interested in trimming down some of the over-contextualisation. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:29, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Grnrchst: Just as information, the current condition of the history section was the result of various past debates. Essentially, there were major disputes over the origin of AANES and its population, and the "over-contextualisation" emerged as a stable compromise which satisfied editors with often opposing viewpoints. Just to clarify, I'm not opposed to the history section being updated / rewritten (and I suspect many of the other editors involved in the old disputes aren't opposed either) -in fact, an update would be great-, I just wanted to inform you of the circumstances. Applodion (talk) 15:59, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Applodion: Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it. :) --Grnrchst (talk) 21:00, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In a previous section it was mentioned that the AANES changed its official name to the DAANES (D for Democratic). And it has seen usage from media too (such has this https://hawarnews.com/en/daa-calls-on-un-to-provide-support-for-displaced-people). I suggest those that can edit the page do so with the new added word Remikipedia (talk) 05:33, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should go further and move the article to Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. Charles Essie (talk) 21:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The SDF has already taken much territory including all remaining enclaves of pro Assad forces NateCT (talk) 06:43, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The link to the main article in the 'External relations' section should be to 'AANES–Ba'athist Syria relations' rather than to 'Rojava–Syria relations', to reflect the article's current title. Hexalogical (talk) 16:37, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Flag of the Syrian opposition is adopted as the new flag of the region as per: aanes-adopts-flag-of-syrian-revolution/ Erledigungs (talk) 13:45, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That source does not state it is adopted as the flag of the region, it states it is adopted as the accepted national flag for AANES. CMD (talk) 15:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, since they consider themselves to be a part of Syria, just that they want to extend its confederal model to the whole country, and neither do governorates in Syria have its own flags, I think it's reasonable to add the national flag as their flag if they have recognized it. DaniCBP (talk) 16:27, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's like adding the flag of the United States to Texas, it flies in Texas but it isn't the flag of Texas. CMD (talk) 17:46, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Chipmunkdavis agreed, it is very misleading to imply green-white-black flag is the flag of the DAANES. it's not. TheThighren (talk) 23:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So is the revolutionary flag the accepted flag of Syria in this case? NorthTension (talk) 16:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's hard to say. At this point it may be safe to call it the de-facto flag of Syria, but not much else. 2601:406:8500:D790:4983:F5FA:5925:E8DC (talk) 17:02, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, in this case we have a source noting the revolutionary flag is explicitly the flag accepted by the AANES as the flag of Syria. CMD (talk) 17:33, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]