Talk:Alpha Trion (SG)

Alpha Trion's Identity

So, this would be the old coot that Shattered Glass Optimus and crew shuffled off?--Rosicrucian^Talk 03:13, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe. Alpha Trion's description of his home universe doesn't totally mesh with what we're shown in Shattered Glass. He says his world was at peace and the war was over. But SG Prime dumped his "Old One" seemingly in the middle of that world's conflict. Though it would make sense, personality-wise, it would require A3 to lie. Not outside the realm of possibility, but not something we can totally count on. A trivia note about the distinct possibility is in order, so long as we don't overdue it. --ItsWalky 03:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I might note that the apparent discrepancy between A3's description and the "Shattered" reality as we know it can be explained by several means. 1) A3 is lying (as you, Walky, suggest), 2) Sideswipe is lying (unlikely), 3) It might be important to note when A3 is pulled out of the Shattered reality. We don't really get that strongly that A3 was "dumped" by Prime (although this is certainly likely), nor that it occurred in the "middle" of the conflict. It could, for example, be before the Decepticons were a force to be reckoned with, and Prime was ruling his world with an iron fist. We definitely get the impression that the Decepticon rebellion had to build up from almost nothing, and that this took a long-time grass-roots effort. 4) Perhaps A3's craziness extends to how he viewed even his home universe. He honestly thinks that his world was at peace, but is incapable of comprehending the full reality due to his madness.--G.B. Blackrock 16:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Just got the latest issue in the mail, and it sounds even more unlikely that he comes from the Shatterverse. Alpha Trion to Skyfall: "This sword was not originally mine. It belonged to a Decepticon leader named 'Slaughter'. It contains much of his original programming, encrypted so deeply that it is impossible to change or remove. The bearer of the sword is under constant assault by the thoughts of an ancient and evil mind. [...] But these many years, I have resisted this sword's evil influence. I believe you embody a similar strength of character." While it's possible that Trion is a warmongering Autobot who sees the peace-loving Decepticons as "evil," his fear of the sword seems out of place in that scenario; I would expect contempt. Plus he's giving it to an Autobot who has shown no signs of the Shatterversal inversion, and Trion certainly would've figured out by this point that the Shatterverse isn't the norm. And on top of it all, "Slaughter" is an unlikely name for a heroic Decepticon. - Jackpot 21:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Of course, that gets into the "Alpha Trion as unreliable narrator" issue still.--Rosicrucian^Talk 22:59, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll add to the above that there seems to be no indication that A3 got this sword from a Shattered Universe Decepticon, even assuming he's telling the truth about that part. (I confess I don't have my copy yet, so feel free to correct me on that). He may have picked up the sword some time after his departure from his "home" universe. "Slaughter" is a perfectly likely name for a non-heroic Decepticon....--G.B. Blackrock 23:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I suppose that's true; Slaughter could've been a denizen of Axiom Nexus, or maybe A3 had traveled to other universes between the Shatterverse and the TTverse. Ultimately, I expect some kind of closure on A3's character by the end of this storyline, so hopefully this discussion will be moot soon. - Jackpot 23:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

So, what's the deal with this one? why do you make him sound so bad? ("Transcendent" is hard to get, in Europe)--81.242.160.202 21:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Because he is an SG Autobot, who are bad. --LokitheGrammarNazi 16:02, 19 September 2010 (EDT)

Doesn't anyone figure that some completely different characters happen to have the same name because one of them changed their original name? Maybe SG Alpha Trion's original name wasn't good enough for him so he changed into something he thought was original, much like how two completely different humans can have the same name because of a change. Of course, SG Alpha Trion probably wouldn't have let anone call him by his fictionally real name so we wouldn't ever hear about it in the canon. With that being said, it could be possible that the real Apha Trion is a good guy, not some transformer with multiple-personality-disorder. --LokitheGrammarNazi 16:02, 19 September 2010 (EDT)

fiction

So anyone willing to fill the fiction part?--GUIGUI 13:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Waaaaay behind.

Honestly, I'd write this myself if I had access to club comics, but this is in dire need of a rewrite, and potentially even a move to Alpha Trion (Shattered Glass).--Rosicrucian^Talk 18:23, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Is Skyfall even dead or what? Slaughter's page says so, anyway, but so much Timeline stuff is behind the times. Antimatter 19:24, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

A3's Status as the first Shattered Glass toy

I'd say that's debatable at best, seeing as Dreadwind and Darkwind are Robot Masters Smokesniper and Gigant Bomb, who came out four years prior to the actual set. ---Blackout- 12:38, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

Excellent point! A repurpose is a repurpose is a repurpose. This is why trivia notes like 'A is the first / last / biggest / smallest / only' are pointless. [However, as a good candidate for being one of the 13, he may well be the first Shattered Glass CHARACTER ... not that that matters;)]--Jimsorenson 13:01, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

I really don't think he's a candidate for being one of the Thirteen. --ItsWalky 13:11, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

Neither do I. If it has a mirrorverse counterpart, it's not a multiversal singularity, and therefore, it cannot be one of the thirteen. ---Blackout- 13:29, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

Forest Lee has talked about how multiversal singularities can be influenced by the dimensions they're in, but I doubt that sort of thing would turn a Singularity Alpha Trion into a murderous jackass with delusions of multiversal conquest. And G1 A3 is far from the oldest Transformer discovered in the Matrix (as seen in The Return of Optimus Prime), so... --ItsWalky 13:40, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

So.....in a nutshell, A3 isn't a multiversal singularity. End of story, verdict has been reached. Next person to say otherwise without any plausible evidence to back up their theory will be murdered. With SG A3's sword. :) ---Blackout- 14:19, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

You mean Slaughter's sword, right? Anyway, none of this matters - that was a tongue-in-cheek remark. My real point is, it's wrong to call him the first toy. --Jimsorenson 14:35, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

Right now, I'd write a long and difficult-to-read essay on how Slaughter doesn't exist, but I won't because I'd bore you to death. Anyway, Dreadwind and Darkwind are the first actual toys. ---Blackout- 14:47, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

You'll get no argument from me on Alpha Trion not being one of the 13.

As for the toy thing, I guess you could still say he's the first SG character to get a toy officially sold as that character if you really wanted.

(And just to be utterly pedantic, I think either Demolishor, Bludgeon, or one of the three Targetmasters are the first SG toys in terms of the whole toyline, at least going by the years on their respective pages.) --Jeysie 15:33, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

Well I did write that point before old toys where repurposed, but we could rephrase it as being the first official SG toy, as seing the other trivia point his bio implies that he was always meant to be from there.Dead Metal 15:44, 13 August 2009 (EDT)

Notion has not been seconded.

SG A3 was originally a Classics toy. He is just as repurposed as any other toy.

*flees objects thrown by Dead Metal* ---Blackout- 13:27, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, toy Timelines Alpha Trion even has a red Autobot symbol. I think the toy was technically repurposed. --ItsWalky 13:38, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

I guess it depends on your definition of "repurposed".

To me, "repurposing" means saying that a toy that started out as one character also represents a completely different character.

But, correct me if I'm misunderstanding, Timelines Alpha Trion and Shattered Glass Alpha Trion are the exact same character. It's just that, at the time period represented by his toy, he was in the TransTech universe (hence "Timelines"). Does that still count as repurposed? --Jeysie 13:48, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, didn't Transcendent start pretty hot on the heels of Alpha Trion's release at BotCon?--Rosicrucian^Talk 13:55, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

"The Alpha Trion represented by this toy is the first Shattered Glass character, predating the first SG story by a good year." (It's not really a recton either... they were painting him in a sinister light from his first appearance.) -Derik 13:57, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

Yeah, I agree with those who have said this doesn't count as a "repurposing." To me, it just looks like character evolution as the writer(s) figured out who he was through the process of storytelling, first via the bio and then the comic. But the whole thing is fuzzy enough that I don't think a statement like "first SG toy" counts either. It's a grey area that would gain no benefit from attempted definition. - Jackpot

If Pete Sinclair wasn't just giving me misdirection, he said they weren't sure exactly what to do with their Alpha Trion toy, story-wise, at the time of his release at BotCon 2007. So the "He's the Shattered Glass version" probably came later. So, TECHNICALLY repurposed (the "technically" is important), but PRACTICALLY? Not really, no. I wouldn't list him on the "repurposing" page, anyhow. --ItsWalky 14:03, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

I have to disagree with Rosicrucian. I just did a check, and Transcendent rolled out eight-nine months after BotCon. I don't think that's what you call "pretty hot on the heels". ---Blackout- 14:05, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

That's why I avoided 'first SG toy' in my suggestion above and instead defined it in terms of the character. -Derik 14:24, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

If we are going to make a note, I like Derik's phrasing. I just find it an interestingly weird edge-case to figure out whether we mention it or not. --Jeysie 14:47, 14 August 2009 (EDT)

I find repurposing more likely, since universal streams are numbered by date, and the main SG universe gets an April 2008 number, while his toy was released during BotCon 2007. So, I guess there are a couple of absolutely identical Alpha Trions throughout the TF muktiverse(which isn't unlikely).Item42 02:36, 16 February 2010 (EST)

As I've kind of explained in multiple edit summaries already, since Reunification is a part of the main continuity, that angle doesn't help. Especially since we don't use the universal streams in determining this sort of thing anyway. (In fact, we really don't use universal streams to determine... anything, AFAIK. You shouldn't dwell on them except as a bit of fun trivia.)

And, if you check Trion's disambig, there are, in fact, lots of nigh-identical Trions out there. --Jeysie 03:05, 16 February 2010 (EST)

Any reason we don't just list the toy as both G1 A3 and SGA3? I mean especially with that trivia note about his bio being "super misleading" when there's no reason to assume that the bio is actually meant to go with this Alpha Trion (in fact that note seems like a whiny fan trying to explain his/her fannon as cannon no offense; it just seems like a failed attempt at justifying the toy as specically Shattered glass A3) I don't see why we don't just put the toy as both charachters at the very least. Actually next Botcon someone should ask if the Botcon Alpha Trion toy represents both the original and Shattered Glass charachters or just the SG. Anyhow if BW Megatron's toys can be listed on G1 MEg's page because of how they were released originally, A3's case is just as compelling to me.--BlackStarscream 17:13, 23 July 2011 (EDT)

I'm with BlackStarscream; the bio and red Autobot symbol on the toy seem to indicate that it wasn't originally intended to be a Shattered Glass figure, & it was released a while before his appearance in Transcendent, or any other fiction. Thus, the toy should be considered as representing it's G1 namesake, & repurposed as it's Shattered Glass namesake. Abejorro97 (talk) 23:12, 18 November 2013 (EST)

Aha!

Maybe this is how it works: The SG universal stream is not numbered according to the Old One's release date because it represents him while he was pretending to be not evil. Which is why it hasn't got a purple Autobot logo. It's the first toy of an SG character, but it doesn't represent something within the SG universe.

More importantly, why does the Notes section have this bit:

He mostly appeared in the fan club magazine stories, which aren't called Timelines. So, shouldn't a more appropriate label (like Fun Publications) be used? I'd simply change it myself without asking this, but I'm not sure.Item42 08:24, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

The universal stream is always numbered/labeled according to the fiction, with the actual stories taking precedence over toy bios. Everything SG thus gets its designator solely from the BotCon issue that started the storyline.

You do have a point about the Timelines section, though. I presume people just tend to reflexively think of everything released through the Fanclub as Timelines. (It actually never occurred to me that the TFCC issues weren't considered to be Timelines.) --Jeysie 12:46, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

Alpha Trion's Sword

So it kind of occurred to me today... in "Reunification: Part 4" Aquarius says that Alpha Trion is connected somehow to the Omega Terminus. Which Rodimus in "Dungeons & Dinobots" says is controlled by the Terminus Blade. So now I find myself wondering if Alpha Trion's sword = that there Terminus Blade. --Jeysie 19:13, 25 October 2009 (EDT)

That seems likely! It's probably the SG counterpart of the Key to Vector Sigma. (And would explain why it's one of the few things that can pierce Skyfall's personal forceshield.) --ItsWalky 13:29, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

I had always figured that Skyfall's death was just a matter of the fate manipulation that seemed to revolve around the five (A personal forcefield that literally runs on plot? Heh.), but your further connection makes more sense.

Of course, this all goes a long way towards explaining why the SGverse is so messed up. We should probably be thankful the Matrix doesn't seem to exist.

In any case, I'll be interested to see if the last couple SG stories touch more on the Trion/Terminus connection in any way. --Jeysie 15:15, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

That would be foreshadowing if it mentioned anything about his true nature, at worse case a spoiler.

Avoiding spoilers, but the answer is no, it's not Alpha Trion's sword.99.39.88.159 23:55, 27 April 2012 (EDT)