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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep Steve (Stephen) talk 23:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Roy Pearson

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Roy Pearson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Washington DC lawyer who filed stupid-ass lawsuit for $65 million against a dry cleaner for losing his pants. Despite the Washington Post column on the incident, this doesn't strike me as encyclopedically notable. People file stupid lawsuits all the time. NawlinWiki 15:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep at least for now. This is a current news story which has gone international. Suggest re-visiting the issue in a year or so to see whether anything comes of it. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This person (who is the subject of the article) is not notable in and of himself, it is the lawsuit that generates any (arguable) notability. The lawsuit itself is probably not notable either, and if anything is suitable for WikiNews and not here, but regardless this article is not about the lawsuit, but about the person. Ryanjunk 16:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Week Keep per Starblind -- MisterHand 16:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep - Pearson and his lawsuit are the subject of numerous reliable, independent sources. His story has been featured on Drudge Report and has spawned a lot of public debate. As a judge who may be disbarred for a frivolous lawsuit, this is more than just a run-of-the-mill ridiculous lawsuit. He is a member of the Supreme Court Bar, too. DickClarkMises 17:08, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • place elsewhere for now. For example there is a Wiki page on "frivolous litigation"; a sentence or two on this particular man and this particular case might well be warranted for the time being. Indeed, there are plenty of stupid lawsuits being filed and time will tell what the encyclopaedic fate of this one is. Will it just be thrown out, will it serve as jurisprudence and possible future reform in litigation claims procedures? Time will tell. An actual page on Roy Pearson himself is not really justifiable; his only current wiki-encyclopaedic claim to fame is his pantsy lawsuit, and he should therefore turn up under that category only. Ed Lamot 17:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Not just any random lawyer, its a judge who might be losing his position. 71.255.108.164 18:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep As an administrative judge, its his job to keep other judges in check, this is bound to get pretty big pretty fast with the press it has recieved. It should at least stay for now for referance until the publicity dies down. --Midnight08 19:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The story is currently on the front page of CNN.com, and Google News shows coverage from the UK, Germany, and New Zealand, among many other places. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
All the more reason for WikiNews to cover it, but not a valid commentary on encyclopedic notability. From WP:NOT -
News reports. Wikipedia should not offer first-hand news reports on breaking stories. Wikipedia is not a primary source. However, our sister project Wikinews does exactly that, and is intended to be a primary source. Wikipedia does have many encyclopedia articles on topics of historical significance that are currently in the news, and can be updated with recent verified information.
So, is this lawsuit a topic of historical significance? That remains to be seen. WP is also not a crystal ball. And for all that, at minimum this person is not notable, this case may be, in which case we need to shift the focus and move the article. Ryanjunk 20:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Are you kidding with that quote? On what grounds are you claiming that anyone is trying to make Wikipedia a primary source for "first-hand news reports"? Please provide one example from the article of a "first-hand report." This article should be composed of assertions that are derived from notable, reliable sources. There are tons of such sources about this judge, thus he is notable. DickClarkMises 20:51, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"A representative at the District of Columbia call center confirmed that as of May 2, 2007, Roy Pearson, Jr. is no longer under the employ of the District of Columbia."
This information does not appear in any of the sources for the article, and thus represents original research, of the sort that would be carried out by a news report and not an encyclopedia article. Aside from that, while it's not first-hand reporting (other than the information from this quote), it is information about an ongoing, unresolved court case, which is by definition a "news report". Ryanjunk 23:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The solution for an unsourced sentence is to remove the sentence, not delete the whole article. In fact, I've done just that. -- MisterHand 23:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and the second and third paragraphs are basically copied directly from the dc.gov reference, hence a copyvio. After removing all the copyvio and original research we are left with the first paragraph, which essentially only documents an ongoing news event, hence a valid candidate for deletion. Ryanjunk 01:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good catch on the OR. That should have been removed. Still, though, on the copyvio, if the source exists just cull the copy vio text and summarize, citing the source and allowing others who may be more interested to expand from what is already out there. It shouldn't matter what we think about this guy's job, or his importance. What matters is that he is notable via appearance in major credible media outlets and is probably notable by virtue of his judiciary position. Regardless of whether or not the article is terrible, we should have an article on this guy. DickClarkMises 02:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This man is relevant to current events and the subject of a news story that's currently receiving very wide press from CNN, Reuters, AP, and others. The scandal is only likely to grow. His being a Federal judge would have made him a notable public figure anyway. Collabi 19:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • He's not a "federal judge" as usually understood. Administrative law judges used to be known as hearing examiners, and they report to civil departments. They are not part of the federal judiciary. --Dhartung | Talk 07:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep Administrative Law Judge Roy Pearson has become notable as a living example of what is wrong with American Jusrisprudence. His plainly frivolous suit against a local dry cleaning business and the attendant press coverage is worthy of inclusion as a article on the judge himself. -- 24.210.207.51 20:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - reliable sources (though it definitely needs more) and notable (judge, major coverage). C'mon, if we've got a page on Peanut Butter Jelly Time, I think $65 million pants are worth keeping. Perhaps, as the judge is less interesting than the incident itself, it could be moved to a different page. $65 000 000 pants perhaps?WLU 20:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you feel that Peanut Butter Jelly Time is not an encyclopedic topic, feel free to nominate it for deletion. Ryanjunk 20:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Absolutely keep this article. If Judge Pearson ever applies for a new job, wouldn't we want everyone to know that he is a self-righteous jackass and all-around horrible person? I think we would! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.3.15.253 (talk) 19:07, 3 May 2007
  • Strong Keep The story and the man are of such interest that it has become relevent to history. When somebody searches for him in a couple or twenty years, it would be proper to docuement it here. This is the proper venue. --Marcwiki9 02:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • DeleteTrivial water-cooler story does not constitute encyclopedic material for an article, Fails WP:N by having 2 stories appearing around the same time and apparently written from the same materials. Wikipedia is not a news magazine. This belongs at Wikinews. (Pearson doubtless pilloried in the court of public opinion for overzealously pressing his suit). Edison 04:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, we're not Wikinews, please. There was a day when this would be Chuck Shepherd's bailiwick, but incredibly, I saw it on many internet news sites. People's taste for the jejune is apparently bottomless. --Dhartung | Talk 07:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Opinions on this issue are almost assured to fall into line on whether or not you agree with the essay WP:NOTNEWS; perhaps we should be debating this on a wider level instead of banging our heads against each other here and probably ending with a no-consensus close? Anyway, a Google News archive search doesn't seem to show any coverage about him prior to this incident, meaning there's nothing else we can write about the guy that isn't copied from his own bio ... cab 07:44, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Look at WP:NOTNEWS. This case is most certainly of lasting and historical interest and impact. Many people still refer to the infamous McDonalds coffee burn case, and therefore it gets a Wikipedia entry. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants. People are going to be referring to this pants case for many years. They need a Wikipedia entry for the encyclopedic overview. This is not a trivial and forgettable case. It is not a run of the mill frivolous lawsuit, in which someone sues someone else for frivolous reasons. This is a Judge, a member of the Bar, abuses the system in a mammoth and unprecedented manner. It will not be easily forgotten. --68.193.161.227 13:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Two comments: That article relates to the case and not the individual; it is Liebeck v. McDonald and not Stella Liebeck. If we are to suppose that this case is encyclopedic, we should have an article on the case and not on this individual. Second, WP is not a crystal ball... we don't yet know that this case is going to be of lasting and historical interest until it is. Ryanjunk 15:50, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • KeepThis guy is a public figure having been a judge in the nation's capitol, and involving himself in the legal system in such an extraordinary way.Isaac Crumm 19:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The Government of the District of Columbia took down his official biography today. Come to the Roy Pearson webpage and help decide if the information that was contained in it should also be deleted, or restored and cited with yesterdays access date. Google has not cached the biography. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 19:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Roy Pearson is really only notable for a lawsuit he's filling which is very notable and I think this the only article about and has no biographical information on it. So why not have this page redirected to a different article about the lawsuit like Roy Pearson vs Custom Cleaners or something and maybe some other redirects should be created too.--71.123.210.13 01:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Who says Original Research? This is absurd. How does pointing to a news story on cnn.com become an encyclopedic reference, but pointing to a government office become original research? It seems he was fired, all the evidence points to him being dismissed, and his web page biography was removed. I think if it is the position of the DC Government that he was dismissed, then that is of encyclopedic significance. Noting his dismissal here does not qualify as original research, it merely qualifies as documenting the source of the information. That source is not clickable as a link on the web, but not all sources are. Is Wikipedia now of the opinion that all nonweb sources are so unreliable that they need deletion? I think it is up to the folks that favor deletion to prove that he was not dismissed, and not the other way around. It was Not original research. I think that the statement that he was dismissed needs to be restored, along with the source of the information. --67.81.119.3 04:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The OR was a line in the article which stated that a phone call was made (by the author of the line in the article) to the DC courts, who confirmed his dismissal. That is original research. If it can be verified by a reliable source that he has been dismissed, provide that source and add that detail. The editor who phoned the court system himself and then wrote details into the article was doing original research, which I reverted. Ryanjunk 19:15, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete: Since this is a current news story, I want to keep this article for the reason of interest. Otherwise, per NawlinWiki. ~ Magnus animum ∵ ∫ φ γ 15:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep story featured on CNN (TV), seems quite notable--Daveswagon 21:48, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep Suing for $65 million for a pair of pants by a sitting judge will be referenced in the future. Many countries are using this example to show how the US legal system allows abuse of power. --Hunfe 01:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The man is probably the most notorious asshole to come along in a decade or more. The article serves to make people aware of just what kind of a selfish jackass he is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.170.224.208 (talk) 15:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]
  • Strong Keep I'm not a lawyer and I can't see the future, but tort reform has been gathering steam in the US for a while now. This is a prime example of what tort reform would try to change and has the potential to be a catalyst for such a change. This isn't just about the arrogant already powerful jerkwad suing the poor imigrant family just trying to make it (though that is the current spin) this is quickly being grasped upon as THE tug at your heart strings argument for tort reform.Lizz612 21:36, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In which case it would be an excellent candidate to merge information about this person's lawsuit into an article on Tort Reform. Tort Reform is a notable, encyclopedic topic. Pearson's lawsuit itself may or may not be a notable topic. Roy Pearson himself is non-notable apart from his lawsuit; if there were no lawsuit, Wikipedia would have no entry on this person. Ryanjunk 00:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Remove The creation of the page is feeding the man's ego. It is not relevant news, it will fizzle in a few days after the trial. Isn't wikipedia an encyclopedia, not a news service for reporting on the lastest gossip? Whether or not the public will be aware of how much of an ass this man is, it still gives him fame and notoriety, neither of which he deserves.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.161.73.245 (talk • contribs)
Is there any evidence that this feeds his ego? Personally, I doubt it has any effect on his ego. I think his ego has been crushed by the negative press. Conversly, this event will not fizzle. This is a watershed event that will remain relevant for a long time. There are people who have come to Wikipedia searching for a NPOV article about the guy. It is unfair of you, or anyone, to declare this particular element of American History not worthy of keeping on Wikipedia. --67.81.119.3 19:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • STRONG KEEPI guess I am one of those people that feel any elected official or any person that goes through a confirmation process should be included. This encyclopedia should be very inclusive and should give info on about anyone who might be "someone". we should not be an exclusive academic encyclopedia, but an inclusive one.. one easly used with so much info that a small child can use to find anything. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Callelinea (talk • contribs) 15:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]
  • Keep. This has begun showing up in the newspapers up in Canada as well. Wikipedia is the obvious place for people to come look up the facts. The article needs cleaning up, but it is of current interest. --Stéphane Charette 20:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Plenty of substantial coverage; I just came here from reading about him (and his lawsuit) in the Süddeutsche Zeitung. Sandstein 16:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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