Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tennis

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I have been testing new versions in "Title leader" in women's singles to distinguish the active events from defunct. See below the original and 3 versions. Which one do you vote for?

I plan to implement this new design to the other 3 related articles once a consensus is reached:

1. men's singles

2. men's doubles and

3. women's doubles. Qwerty284651 (talk) 02:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Boc (Boca Raton)	Dub (Dubai)	Doh (Doha)	Ind (Indian Wells)	Mia (Miami)	Cha (Charleston)
Mad (Madrid)	Ber (Berlin)	Rom (Rome)	Can (Canada)	San (San Diego)	Cin (Cincinnati)
Phi (Philadelphia)	Mos (Moscow)	Tok (Tokyo)	Wuh (Wuhan)	Zur (Zürich)	Bei (Beijing)

• Players with 5+ titles. Active players and records are denoted in bold.
• 73 champions in 294 events as of 2024 Rome.

Active tournaments

Defunct tournaments

Active tournaments

Defunct tournaments

Active tournaments

Defunct tournaments

Note: I removed the table from the collapsible show/hide box. Horizontal sticky row headers do not work correctly inside the box in Firefox in Windows 10 Pro. Nor in Safari in my iphone SE 2020. See the table inside the box in this version of the page.

nowrap has been left in so that this table can be compared to Qwerty284651's table (without nowrap) in portrait view on cell phones. We both agree that nowrap should not be used. Nowrap messes up portrait view on mobile by making the location column take up too much width (see discussion). On desktop PC monitor (Windows 10 Pro) there appears to be a bug (in Firefox only) in dealing with nowrap that causes the table to be cut off slightly at the end of the row, and the horizontal scrollbar appears.

I edited version 2 (active followed by defunct events) to get the following table below. I lessened the height with this:

<div class="scroll-container" style="max-height:50vh;">

The article editors can decide what scrolling table height to use.

New readers: Sticky horizontal headers work. Lessen your browser window width to see. Also, feel free to start your own table section here, or in a user sandbox.

The table below (when nowrap is ignored or removed) is working perfectly on my desktop PC monitor in Windows 10 Pro. Also on my iphone SE 2020 (in portrait and landscape view). It has been tested in Safari, Firefox, Chrome, Edge, and Opera. The row and column headers are both sticky.

Active tournaments

Defunct tournaments

• Players with 5+ titles. Active players and records are denoted in bold.
• 73 champions in 294 events as of 2024 Rome.

--Timeshifter (talk) 11:58, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Active tournaments

Defunct tournaments

• Players with 5+ titles. Active players and records are denoted in bold.
• 73 champions in 294 events as of 2024 Rome.

Added my version above. See current difference between your and my version. Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed sticky rows not working (sticky-Col1 -> sticky-col1). Qwerty284651 (talk) 18:27, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer the chronological instead of the alphabetic order; it makes it easier to look for the event's name. Qwerty284651 (talk) 18:55, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I leave that up to you. Though I don't understand what you mean by chronological order. I am not a tennis fan, and so I have no idea of the chronological order of events.

I prefer version 2. Since cell phone users will want to see active events first without having to scroll horizontally.

Also, it is nice to let the years sort too.

I removed any table formatting that did not seem to be needed. Or did not seem to be doing anything. Such as style="margin:o;"

What is that doing? And I think you meant to use a zero, and not the letter "o"

With the flat-list glossary it is not needed since the space between the glossary and table is not large. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The original order listed was the chronological before you changed it to alphabetic. The column order is the chronological order for the active and defunct events. Which is why I would like to see it in the legend above.

Added margin:0 to omit excess wrapping whitespace.

Agree: current events should be listed first.

Is the year column even necessary or can we do without it? Qwerty284651 (talk) 19:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can change the flat-list glossary to chronological order. But alphabetical order is a lot more intuitive. Especially for casual tennis fans who may not know the chronological order of events. I assume that is what you mean by chronological order? And the flat list takes up less vertical space than {{Columns-list}}. That is important for cell phones.

I noticed that you have margin:0 within the table wikitext in your version 2 higher up. I removed it from my version 2. I don't see that it is doing anything at all.

On your version 2, the scrolling window stops prematurely in the horizontal direction. In my version 2 I can read all the columns. That is because I removed class=nowrap from the table.

I like having the year column. So I know what is the time period for each tennis player winning the titles. And I like it being sortable. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would leave nowrap and margin:0; I am using desktop version on mobile. It leaves a line of whitespace on my end (desktop version on mobile and regular desktop), which I bypass with margin:0 (without margin:0 vs. with margin:0). I agree with the glossary being in alphabetical order—more intuitive to the casual reader. Qwerty284651 (talk) 20:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced the plain flat-list glossary (• ''' -> * ''') with {{flatlist}}. Qwerty284651 (talk) 20:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not edit my version 2 further. It is very confusing.

Edit your version 2 higher up. Then I can make comparisons.

{{flatlist}} is a good idea. I think I had a problem with it before. But now it is working. I will keep it in my version.

I removed margin:0 from my version 2 for comparison purposes.

Will be looking later in browsers on my cell phone.

--Timeshifter (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In what way confusing? I feel a live update on the same table is faster and more efficient than each editing their own table.

Okay will not add margin:0 until further notice. I remembered sidebars/navboxes use html lists often so I looked into those. The best I could come up was flatlist. Qwerty284651 (talk) 21:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the table's design and code, I am content with how it turned out, unless you have something else to add. nowrap and margin:0 are minor things and preferential. Qwerty284651 (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am constantly tweaking. So I need to see what effect my changes are having. And I need to compare with your version 2. I can just scroll up and down this talk page to compare the 2. Plus WP:TALK requires not editing others' posts. I rarely do that except when it is something minor that I know they will appreciate. Like changing margin:o to margin:0 in your versions that still needed to be changed.

If margin:0 is of help to you, then I have no problem with you using it in your version 2, and in articles. I am just trying to see for myself what it is doing. Will do some cell phone work later. Same for nowrap. I think it causes problems sometimes on desktop screens. It may help on cell phones in this case.

I am using max-height. So the scrolling table window is less tall:

<div class="scroll-container" style="max-height:70vh;">

--Timeshifter (talk) 21:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I truncated version 1-3 to only display the notable changes and removed the rest (glossary flat-list and table's column headers) for better readibility. Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See:

User:Timeshifter/Sandbox255 - not scrolling.

User:Timeshifter/Sandbox256 - scrolling.

Margin:0 helps with the scrolling table. On my desktop monitor there is less space between the top of it and the section header when you push the scroll bar all the way to the top. That is all I have noticed so far. I haven't noticed any difference on my mobile browsers yet. --Timeshifter (talk) 15:33, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly what I said. The difference can be noticed on desktop and the desktop mode on mobile browsers but not on mobile mode, because the latter defaults to Minerva skin which omits any stray whitespace. Qwerty284651 (talk) 17:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if you noticed my note in my table section: "Note: I removed the table from the show/hide box. Horizontal sticky row headers do not work correctly inside the box in Firefox in Windows 10 Pro. Nor in Safari in my iphone SE 2020."

Look at your table in the show/hide box to see what I mean. I suggest removing the box so that others reading this thread can see that the horizontal row headers are sticky, and work correctly. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I get you. {{cot}}/{{cob}}, Collapse box, as you call it show/hide box, overrides disables overflow, thereby disabling and sticky headers (row and column). Qwerty284651 (talk) 03:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Btw, I propose we rename the tables to version 1 & 2, respectively, because with our names next to them sounds like we one the tables which goes against WP:OWN. We don't own anything on wiki, but rather share it with the rest of the community. You named them thusly to distinguish whose proposed design is but it may rub people the wrong way. Qwerty284651 (talk) 03:49, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not saying I own the table in the article, and so it doesn't go against WP:OWN. Saying "Timeshifter's table" in the heading just prevents others from editing the table in that section. And it allows me to continue editing it. Since the discussion is in another section it makes it easy. And it makes it simpler for others to follow the discussion. And others can come up with their own table ideas in their own sections if they want to. Or in a sandbox. I left a note to that effect in my table section. Going by table numbers alone could get very confusing.

I added back margin:0 to my table per discussion. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:27, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with your request. It's just that I have been involved in a couple of table redesign discussions where we've gone through several versions and combinations for a result: all edits on 1 table or set of tables. But have it your way.

Imagine 10 editors, each with their own version. You would never reach a consensus that way. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Qwerty284651 (talk) 04:36, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I could move my table to a sandbox. Maybe wait to see if more tables show up before consolidating on one here. I think we have the same table except for the height and nowrap. Amount of height is a decision of the article editors. So is nowrap. I prefer not using it, but I can live with it. Right now people can quickly compare our 2 tables on the same page to decide whether they want nowrap or not. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:41, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have changed my mind after looking at my cell phone again. Keep nowrap. I was torn between its effects on desktop PC screen versus mobile screen. Mobile wins out on this one. I am talking about mobile (not desktop) view on my iphone SE 2020. This iphone has a relatively smaller screen compared to other cell phones. And I use a larger text size. So if nowrap works on it, then it will also work fine on other cell phones. --Timeshifter (talk) 07:21, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: After additional testing on portrait mobile, I noticed that nowrap obstructs field of view of the table by 70% similar to tall column headers but for rows. (see with nowrap vs. without nowrap). Removed nowrap from my version. Qwerty284651 (talk) 16:01, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I am pretty much done on my end and I am happy with the version. I feel you and I are, sans margin:0, on the same page. I will give the new design a month to marinate until the next event from the list above. And, if noone objects will implement said design in all 4 pages. Qwerty284651 (talk) 16:06, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's funny, I did not even think to look at such a wide table in portrait view on my cell. I just did, and since it is a smaller screen, and because I use a large font, I can only see one and a half data cells in the row. That is with nowrap on. I can see 4 and a half data cells without nowrap on. So nowrap can remain off as far as I am concerned.

Feel free to implement the changes now. Further discussion may make further improvements. But I see no reason to wait to implement these improvements. And we agree on keeping margin:0. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:28, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I primarily edit in desktop mode on mobile, so I always use portrait view. I doubt the majority of wiki visitors use landscape mode on mobile. 4 and a half cells is 9x more than half a data cell (on my end, goes from 5 to 8 cells) without nowrap. Qwerty284651 (talk) 21:37, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For me it is 3x more without nowrap in mobile mode in portrait view. 1.5 vs 4.5 data cells visible without horizontal scrolling.

You are right about the majority of wiki readers since most will have a larger cell phone than me.

I don't like to indent too many times. Messages end up being very long and narrow, and some occupy only a third of the width of the screen on my phone in portrait view.

I just noticed that {{outdent}} operates differently on my cell versus on desktop PC screen.

{{outdent|::::::}} - The colons are needed on my phone to get the outdent arrow to line up at all in portrait view. Unlike in desktop PC where they are not really needed. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I left nowrap in my table so readers can compare our 2 tables in portrait view on cell phones. Your table does not have nowrap. That way readers can see why we both now oppose nowrap. I left a note about it before my table. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:46, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

{{od}} does behave differently on mobile vs. on desktop. Still, don't need to outdent every few comments. Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:54, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have the smaller cell screen. So I think I would know when to do it. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I'm not really into this whole chart so I have no say in how it's displayed. Whatever works for you two. I do have one complaint about these type of charts in general since you are in the process of fine-tuning this one. In almost all tennis articles we have had a big no-no to listing tournaments as only a city. They are the common tournament name, not a location. Why on earth would we retain the city here when it's being updated? It seems like the events could easily be two letter abbreviations. Indian Wells is the event name so it should be IW or IWO for Indian Wells Open. It should never be Rome since it's the Italian Open that everyone knows. So IT or IO or ITO. No Tokyo it's Pan Pacific Open. PP or PPO. No Beijing... it's the China Open. CO or CHO. And the key should not say the cities either but instead use the name of the event. Pretty much all our charts by consensus make sure we use the tournament name under tournaments. Why is this chart funky? I see Moscow and I have no idea what event that is... Kremlin Cup. Same with Berlin since it's the German Open. And the abbreviations should also link to the proper tournament. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:57, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Will update the glossary. Thanks for the feedback. Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This then merits updating the following pages:

  1. ATP: WTA 1000 tournaments's transcluded charts found in Category:WTA 1000 tournaments seasons and respective records and stat pages: WTA 1000 Series singles records and statistics, WTA 1000 Series doubles records and statistics
  2. WTA: ATP Masters 1000 tournaments's transcluded charts found in Category:ATP Tour Masters 1000 seasons and respective records and stat pages: Tennis Masters Series singles records and statistics, Tennis Masters Series doubles records and statistics. Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  As I said, some tables have been wrong for awhile, and some have slowly been fixed. Since you two were updating these particular charts it seems like a good time to fix the city names and make them proper event names. Whether it gets left as Ind for Indian Wells Open is not a huge deal, but leaving it as Ber for German Open or Rom for Italian Open or Tok for Pan Pacific Open is the bigger issue. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:23, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Fyunck(click), I surmise you want the event names in ATP Masters 1000 tournaments and WTA 1000 tournaments's "Past finals" sections expanded to full names. Qwerty284651 (talk) 15:39, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I substituted the charts on the main pages (atp masters and wta 1000). Here are the current events' names:

1. Bei (Beijing) - CH or CO or CN for China Open

2. Ber (Berlin) - GO or GR or GE for German Open

3. Boc (Boca Raton) - VF or FL for Virginia Slims of Florida

4. Can (Canada) - CO or CN or CA for Canadian Open

5. Cha (Charleston) - CL or CH or CO or CR for Charleston open

6. Chi (Chicago) - a tricky one....VC or AC or CI or CG for Virginia Slims of Chicago/Ameritech Cup

7. Cin (Cincinnati) - CI for Cincinnati Open

8. Doh (Doha) - QO or QA or QT for Qatar Open

9. Dub (Dubai) - DC or DU or DB for Dubai Championships

10. Ind (Indian Wells) - IW for Indian Wells Open

11. Mad (Madrid) - MA or MD for Madrid Open

12. Mia (Miami) - MI for Miami Open

13. Mon (Monte Carlo) - MO or MC for Monte-Carlo Masters

14. Mos (Moscow) - KC for Kremlin Cup

15. Gua (Guadalajara) - GU or GO or GD for Guadalajara

16. Par (Paris) - PA for Paris Masters

17. Phi (Philadelphia) - PH or VP for Virginia Slims of Philadelphia

18. Rom (Rome) - IT for Italian Open

19. San (San Diego) - SD or SC or SO for San Diego Open, Southern California Open

20. Sha (Shanghai) - SH for Shanghai Masters

21. Tok (Tokyo) - PP for Pan Pacific Open

22. Wuh (Wuhan) - WO or WU for Wuhan Open

23. Zur (Zurich) - ZU or ZO for Zurich Open

Note:

Added the missing Chicago and Guadalajara (now defunct) to the list. Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

CH is proposed twice for China Open and Charleston Open. Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:32, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Several are proposed twice as I didn't know what was best. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:37, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any other abbreviations you would like to propose or is that it? Qwerty284651 (talk) 13:22, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If not, then let's vote on it. Which abbreviations do you opt for? Qwerty284651 (talk) 01:31, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added Monte Carlo, Shanghai and Paris. Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:32, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Krmohan, Crows22, Wolbo, and Unnamelessness: to chip in. Which names and abbreviations would you replace them with? Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:03, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not a tennis fan, so I don't have a clue about the column headers. 2-letter abbreviations would make the table less wide. That is a good thing. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:32, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I too am a proponent of narrow tables. The less horizontal scrolling the better. Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So if we do our best to make it two letters I added one set of choices above. And I think it should be Zurich since that is the English usage at wikipedia. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a big deal but in order I think I'd go with:

• 1.CN, 2.GE, 3.FL, 4.CA, 5.CH, 6.ACVC, 7.CI, 8.QTQA, 9.DU, 10.IW, 11.MA, 12.MI, 13.MC, 14.KC, 15.GD, 16.PA, 17.PH, 18.IT, 19.SD, 20.SH, 21.PP, 22.WU, 23.ZU Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I propose the following abbr:

Qwerty284651 (talk) 14:38, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two items I was just looking at. China already has an official country code of CN, so I think more people would be familiar with equating China Open with CN, which leaves CH for Charleston. Likewise the country code for Qatar is QA so I will change my Qatar to QA also. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I changed mine to CN and CH, respectively. Short names not yet decided upon:

6. VC or AC; 15. GD or GU; 19. SD or SC? Qwerty284651 (talk) 20:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with yours. Only question in looking at it is SC. Not because it doesn't work well with Southern California Open, but that article was recently changed to San Diego Open (tennis). The chart you have here is from 1990 onwards and the San Diego event was only a 1000 level from 2004-2007, and in that time it always had San Diego in the title. In fact from 1990 through today, only in 2013 was it called the Southern California Open. Because of the recent page move to San Diego Open (tennis) which these events will link to, it should probably be at SD or SO. I would personally stick with SD. Otherwise VC and GU are fine. I think I went with GD because some will not know how to spell Guadalajara and GD seemed to roll off the the tongue better for me. I had no clue what to do with the Virginia Slims of Chicago/ Ameritech Cup. I didn't want another "C" issue. VC I think works better now that I think of it. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:36, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's stick with the events' current names and use abbreviations according to those. SD, GD (valid argument about others not knowing how to spell it - even though only contested twice; now defunct), AC...until they change again.

Because we are changing the names events, all 4 stat and record articles are using the event's names by city, I would leave the rest of the articles tables unchanged, maybe add something in lead along the lines of "The following is a list of the events played by sponsor name and city: <and then you list them of in one order or another> WTA German Open (Berlin),...Italian Open (Rome),..Virginia Slims of Florida (Boca Raton), etc." What do you think? Qwerty284651 (talk) 21:19, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not my first choice, but yes we can also keep it as is. I would only put the sponsor name if we do at the main tournament page, which is almost never unless the sponsor name is the only name it ever had here. Also if you change to two letters, and all they are is the first two letters of a city name, the second letter should not be capitalized. CN sure, two word names like Indian Wells (IW) or San Diego (SD or Sa), but Rome would be Ro, Guadalahara would be GD or Gu. VC but Be. And what do we do with the Qatar Open? put it at Do for Doha? It is a bit strange that these are the only type of charts that do not use the tournament name. I find it confusing but I guess others don't. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:45, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 34 transcluded charts at WTA 1000 and ATP 1000 from the yearly pages and the 4x records and statistics pages all use the city name instead of the tournament, i.e. sponsorship name. I purposefully added the events' cities to save up on space in the charts — for conciseness, really.

The problem with the main 2 pages is that they contain 34 transcluded charts each. If we, let's say, change the city name to the current tournament's name, this would then require constant updating whenever a tournament changes its name in the future. That's I am hesitant on renaming them...it requires maintenance. With the current city names it's no problem. Even Cincy was once contested in a different city but still only Cincinnati is listed, for consistency and to avoid confusion.

If we use the name of the tournament at the time it was played, it would confuse everyone. So many events went through numerous sponsorship name changes over the years that listing them all for any tournament would be inefficient.

This is why I am fine with listing the full names in the lead of the 2 main and 4 records pages as a compromise. If that is okay with you? Otherwise, I am not getting involved in changing the event names. Plus, even atp/wta refer to them by their city names when listing records (Iga's Madrid-Rome double; Nadal's Canada-Cincinnati double, etc.).

With consensus you might get them to be renamed, but don't count my vote. Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:12, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the abbreviations is concerned, I have concocted this prototype:

• CA (Canadian Open)
• CH (Charleston Open)
• CI (Cincinnati Open)
• CN (China Open)
• DU (Dubai Championship)
• FL (Virginia Slims of Florida)
• GD (Guadalajara)
• GE (German Open)
• IT (Italian Open)
• IW (Indian Wells Open)
• KC (Kremlin Cup)
• MA (Madrid Open)
• MC (Monte-Carlo Masters)
• MI (Miami Open)
• PA (Paris Masters)
• PH (Virginia Slims of Philadelphia)
• PP (Pan Pacific Open)
• QA (Qatar Open)
• SD (San Diego Open)
• SH (Shanghai Masters)
• VC (Ameritech Cup)
• WU (Wuhan Open)
• ZU (Zurich Open)

Thoughts? Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever on this one. However those cites initials should each absolutely link to the events so you have the same issue of events name changes. I don't know what the worry is though since every time an event name changes the old name is redirected. And I never said to use the event name at the time it was played with sponsorships. We would use the general common name. The Ameritech Cup is a sponsorship name that we try not to use... but that's really the only name we have for that event. Virginia Slims is also a sponsorship name but it is what it is. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So, what do you propose then? We revert to the original version (wta singles (outdated) version below) or replace the current one with the one above, listing only events pertinent to the discipline or keep the glossary/legend as is? I wikilinked the above events.

• Bei (Beijing)
• Ber (Berlin)
• Boc (Boca Raton)
• Can (Canada)
• Cha (Charleston)
• Cin (Cincinnati)
• Doh (Doha)
• Dub (Dubai)
• Ind (Indian Wells)
• Mad (Madrid)
• Mia (Miami)
• Mos (Moscow)
• Phi (Philadelphia)
• Rom (Rome)
• San (San Diego)
• Tok (Tokyo)
• Wuh (Wuhan)
• Zur (Zürich)

Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:46, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You will certainly never see me advocate for a city name over an event name. If the column header says tournament or championship we would not do that. It is wrong to list a city under a tournament headers. We corrected many charts that did this long ago, like the performance timelines. These were so stewy, and to be honest a lot of original research, that they were ignored I guess. I just thought that if they were being be updated it would be a good time to fix the city names under the tournament header. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, event name it is. I just remembered the 3 defunct masters events: Stuttgart, Stockholm and Hamburg in men's. I assume we just use Eurocard Open, Stockholm Open and Hamburg European Open, respectively, correct? What about abbreviations for them? What do you propose? Qwerty284651 (talk) 11:01, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hamburg European Open should be Hamburg Masters. During the time as a 1000 level it was German Open and Hamburg Masters. Then from '09 to '18 it was back to German Open. It's now at Hamburg again. The men's event has never been called the Hamburg European Open. Our article is broken with the Hamburg European Open title and needs some fixing. That's a women's 125 level event. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:38, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And for abbreviations? I suggest something like this: EU or EO for Eurocard Open, ST for Stockholm Open and HA for Hamburg Masters (at the time it was played). Qwerty284651 (talk) 20:34, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeppers. I'd go with EU. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:42, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Like so? Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:49, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• CA (Canadian Open)
• CH (Charleston Open)
• CI (Cincinnati Open)
• CN (China Open)
• DU (Dubai Championship)
• EU (Eurocard Open)
• FL (Virginia Slims of Florida)
• GD (Guadalajara)
• GE (German Open)
• HA (Hamburg Masters)
• IT (Italian Open)
• IW (Indian Wells Open)
• KC (Kremlin Cup)
• MA (Madrid Open)
• MC (Monte-Carlo Masters)
• MI (Miami Open)
• PA (Paris Masters)
• PH (Virginia Slims of Philadelphia)
• PP (Pan Pacific Open)
• QA (Qatar Open)
• SD (San Diego Open)
• SH (Shanghai Masters)
• ST (Stockholm Open)
• VC (Virginia Slims of Chicago)
• WU (Wuhan Open)
• ZU (Zurich Open)

Boy that sure looks great! If we go with VC shouldn't it then be Virginia Slims of Chicago? Otherwise AC for Ameritech Cup. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Qwerty284651 (talk) 09:09, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the final product: Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:15, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ATP Singles

Active tournaments	– Events not played
Defunct tournaments	– Events not won