Property talk:P1448
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official name of the subject in its official language(s)
| Description | the name of the item | ||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Represents | official name (Q11938905) | ||||||||||||
| Data type | Monolingual text | ||||||||||||
| Template parameter | |||||||||||||
| Domain | all items (note: this should be moved to the property statements) | ||||||||||||
| Allowed values | name of place in the original language of that region (note: this should be moved to the property statements) | ||||||||||||
| Example | Germany (Q183) → Bundesrepublik Deutschland Pirelli Tower (Q920809) → Grattacielo Pirelli Rome (Q220) → Roma Hungary (Q28) → Magyarország H&M (Q188326) → Hennes & Mauritz AB | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: same | no label (Q32085223) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: usage | Category:Pages using Wikidata property P1448 (Q20990034) | ||||||||||||
| Tracking: local yes, WD no | Category:Official name not in Wikidata, but available on Wikipedia (Q27673378) | ||||||||||||
| See also | native label (P1705), title (P1476), name (P2561), trading name (P6427) | ||||||||||||
| Lists |
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| Proposal discussion | Proposal discussion | ||||||||||||
| Current uses |
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List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1448#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1448#Conflicts with P31, SPARQL
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1448#citation needed
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1448#Entity types
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1448#Scope, SPARQL
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Domain and allowed values
[edit]- should the domain for this property exclude person (Q215627) and its subclasses?
- should allowed vales be changed to "name of place or organization in its original language"
- PKM (talk) 20:56, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Official name vs valid written forms of the names
[edit]It seems like official names comes in at least two forms. Either names are given by some authority, or an authority accept or rejects written forms of provided names. Perhaps we should have two qualifiers; given by and validated by. Given by would be a link to the authority that gave the subject its name, while validated by would be the authority that validated the name. Jeblad (talk) 10:03, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
P1448: official name
[edit]Moving from Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2017/04#P1448: official name
Hi! Regarding official name (P1448), while according to the description it is meant to contain the "official name of the subject in its official language(s)" and my feeling is that this is indeed the original purpose, from time to time I find here and there the property filled with the official name transcribed in non official languages. For example I am sure that Russian and Georgian are not official languages used in New York City (Q60). Discussing on the use of this property for infoboxes we realized that this would be a problem when we want only the "official name of the subject in its official language(s)". So I am asking if the description and the intended purpose of the property is correct. Additionaly it would be a good idea for maintenance to check for such problems (easy, most countries have only one or two official languages). -Geraki (talk) 19:40, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
- An official name (P1448) is given for the entity by an official body as part of that body's official duty. If you can't give a source for the name used in P1448 then it is most likely just a translated name. Jeblad (talk) 10:29, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
- Can anyone answer that? It's a serious problem. See Germany (Q183). It has 15 values in this property. And only the first one (with preferred rank) is the real official language. If we want to write all possible language and just to have the official as preferred, we must write it down. Xaris333 (talk) 14:30, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
- More examples of misuse in Luhansk Oblast (Q171965), Luhansk (Q134279) - some improper Belarusian translations were added.
- As per property's description (official name of the subject in its official language(s)) and per the Allowed values above in #Documentation (name of place in the original language of that region), there shouldn't be added translated/transliterated variants of official names into this property to items. If this is really needed, there may be created a new property ~"In other languages" to be used as qualifier for P1448. --XXN, 15:02, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
- @Geraki, Xaris333, XXN: I understand the need not to multiplied the values without necessity, but something bothers me a lot: how do you know what is the official language(s) of the subject? most subject doesn't have an obvious official language, and sometimes they don't have an official language at all. New York City (Q60) is a good example since AFAIK, there is no official language there (not in New York City (Q60), nor in New York (Q1384) ; and United States of America (Q30) is well known for not having an official language, by the way ⟨ United States of America (Q30)is strange as de facto (Q712144) is kind of the opposite of official…). And what about things that are not places (this property is mostly use for places but not only, and what about places not on Earth (Q2) like Olympus Mons (Q520)?).
⟩ official language (P37) ⟨ English (Q1860) ⟩
P794 Search ⟨ Q712144 ⟩ - Right now, on 802 822 distinct items using official name (P1448), only 2029 (= 0,25% !!!) have a official language (P37).
- Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 09:33, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
- @VIGNERON: Indeed, in fact it is not exactly only in the official language but in the way it is written in official documents of the entity that administers the settlement (or institution). In the New York example, the official name is the one that is used by the New York City Council (Q645195). This includes also places where there is an official language but again we need the official name, and not just the common name in the official language (f.e. for France (Q142) the official name is "République française", not just "France".
- For a companies and other institutions the official name is the one that was used to register and is used in legal documents. For example the official name of Google is "Google Inc." and the official name of Royal Society (Q123885) is "The President, Council and Fellows of the Royal Society of London for Improving Natural Knowledge"[1].
- And yes, some things do not have an official name.
- -Geraki (talk) 11:43, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry Geraki but I think you missed my point (or I missed yours, anyhow I still don't have my answer). My problem is not with the « its official language(s) » part (on that, I totally agree with you) but with the « in its official language(s) » part. How could we know in what is « its official language(s) ». Ad absurdum, if I found an obscure name in official papers of the New York City Council (Q645195) in old archives (which is unlikely but not implausible), could I add this name? An other example with Olympus Mons (Q520), I know who create the name, when, how, why and even when and who approved it (see Q520#P1448), but how do I know for sure what language this is in? (no one really administers Mars). And this is a case where I know a bit the matter but how to do when in the first place, you don't know anything about the situation. Cherry on the cake: what about official names in unofficial language(s) (like national, minority, de facto, etc languages). Ideally, I would like some clear and explicit guideline (which « official name of the subject in its official language(s) » is not at all, not for me at least). Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 12:08, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
- Adding to official name (P1448) all translated versions of the official name in all languages (over 200) it's not really a necessary way, and in fact by acting so there will just be duplicated values from labels and aliases and will transform items in some kind of dictionaries. Some settlements like Dnipro (Q48256) have changed their time by 4-5 times in their history - it will be a chaos to add and maintain ~250x5 (over 1000 entries in this statement) with ~2-3 qualifiers each! Also this will cause some additional issues: e.g. at the moment the item for Germany (Q183) has 1,187,177 bytes, and after such additions this item will highly increase in size and may become difficult to view/read (for anyone) or even inaccessible from weak devices. We should preserve some space for values of demonym (P1549) (which also will increase item's sizes). XXN, 10:37, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
No constraint?
[edit]Right now, there is no constraint indicated for this property, but some constraints would be obvious. Very quickly, I can at least think of:
Can I add this constraint?
Could you think to other constraints? (for instance, should we limit to places?)
Cdlt, VIGNERON (talk) 09:33, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
- I added this constraint to the property. I also included Wikimedia template (Q11266439) as a value of item of property constraint (P2305). --Shinnin (talk) 14:21, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Multilingual official name
[edit]I added "Maó-Mahón" as official name of Maó (Q49550) using the special language code mul. It is not the "name in the official languages" which would be "Maó" in Catalan and "Mahón" in Spanish, but this multilingual version has been declared official. I wonder how this usage can be reflected in the property description.--Ssola (talk) 15:04, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- Well, technically the current description "official name of the subject in its official language(s)" is fine.--Ssola (talk) 15:14, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- The only other such use according to Wikidata:Database_reports/monolingual_text/multiple_languages is in Biel/Bienne (Q1034).--Ssola (talk) 15:39, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
- Support, because of Øresund Bridge (Q297871) --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:37, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
- The only other such use according to Wikidata:Database_reports/monolingual_text/multiple_languages is in Biel/Bienne (Q1034).--Ssola (talk) 15:39, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Can it be used for organizations?
[edit]Can it be used for organizations that changed their names over the years (qualifying it with start time (P580) and end time (P582)) or there is a more appropriate property?--Malore (talk) 09:13, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- @Malore: This should be used for organisations, see Wikidata:WikiProject_Companies/Properties for handy property reference. --SilentSpike (talk) 09:05, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Slightly (but important) change proposed
[edit]Hello, I'd like to change the content of this property.
- Current description (fr) : nom du sujet dans la (les) langue(s) officielle(s) de ce sujet (lieu, organisation...)
- Proposed new description (fr) : nom du sujet selon les organismes officiels'
The meaning of this change are useful because there might be debates/polical uneasiness on how to name a new country /change name (Eswatini, Londonderry,...) not only inside the country but also outside the country... République tchèque was very common in French until there has been a name change to Tchéquie. The Czechs obviously don't care about the French name but the French do. People would input language data with a compulsory reference that would be official (NATO, UN, any government body, etc). Bouzinac (talk) 14:21, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
- I think that would be a different property. Perhaps "official translation". It's very useful to be know the official name of the item itself and be sure that there are no official name from the item in some languages. So don't change the purpose of this property, make a new proposal (and leave a note here when it's done so we can help). Ainali (talk) 09:56, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Multiple official names
[edit]How to express multiple official names, which can be dependent from context? F.e. a building can have a "normal" official name, an official name as heritage (in the heritage database of the country) or as UNESCO world heritage. I think an additional qualifier is needed for the authority which defines the name.--Sinuhe20 (talk) 15:43, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's not uncommon that they have different items (because they cover slightly different areas/things). See for example Visby (Q54757) vs. Hanseatic town of Visby (Q1779992). Ainali (talk) 20:57, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Jyutping transliteration
[edit]I got a notice that "Jyutping transliteration is not a valid qualifier for official name" while Mandarin Pinyin is a valid qualifier. For places in Cantonese-speaking areas we should have "Jyutping transliteration" also be a valid qualifier. Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 18:39, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
Add operator to allowed qualifiers
[edit]For ships whose names change as they change ownership, using official name (P1448) with operator (P137) seems best. As names often change with ownership, I propose adding operator (P137) to the allowed list Vicarage (talk) 17:59, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
- Good idea. Infrastruktur (talk) 18:45, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
Remove conflict with instance of human
[edit]I don't understand why this property cannot be used with human. Currently the closest property available is «name in native language», but there are many examples of people whose native language is unknown, or people having an unofficial native language in their country so their only known name is in a different language from their native one. I know it can sound weird said like that, but for example in France, some decades ago many people didn't have French as native language, but their "written" name only existed in French since it was the only official language (sort of, they had actually no real name in their native languages, see Talk:Q121842#Native_language). For those people, the only valid name is French, but it is not their native language; I guess there are plenty of similar examples worldwide. Persons have official names, the ones in Vital records, there is no reason why we cannot use it as a statement. CaféBuzz (talk) 17:52, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
- I've just realized there was the property Property:P1477 (birth name), but it is not clear whether it refers to official name or not (what is actually "name of a person at birth"?). Also, a person with multiple nationalities (citizenships) could have several official names in the sense I was talking about just before. CaféBuzz (talk) 18:06, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
- There's a bunch of properties for names of people, all with slightly different meaning: name in native language (P1559), birth name (P1477), married name (P2562), given name (P735), family name (P734), pseudonym (P742). 'Given name' and 'family name' is the most common ones, but requires an item for the name. Imagine a person changing name once they got married, then retaking their maiden name after a divorce, for this you will need many of the properties listed. Infrastruktur (talk) 18:56, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, you are probably right, this one is not the best property for that. The situation I'm having problems with is a person who is known worldwide with a particular name in particular language that is not their native language (or their actual native language is unknown, or there actually is no something like name in their native language, which are actually common cases as I was saying) ? Actually "given name" and "family name" are the best and most common solution, but you said it, they require an item. Probably the best is to create the items and use them in dubious cases (I have seen a number of dubious 'names in native language', added semi-automatically, based on the assumption that native language of a person must be the official language of its citizenship country). CaféBuzz (talk) 19:45, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
- There's a bunch of properties for names of people, all with slightly different meaning: name in native language (P1559), birth name (P1477), married name (P2562), given name (P735), family name (P734), pseudonym (P742). 'Given name' and 'family name' is the most common ones, but requires an item for the name. Imagine a person changing name once they got married, then retaking their maiden name after a divorce, for this you will need many of the properties listed. Infrastruktur (talk) 18:56, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
- It should be fine making a new item for a given name and a family name if it doesn't yet exist. Infrastruktur (talk) 20:09, 21 May 2023 (UTC)